Shooting in the dark - tips

[badwabbit]

With an increasing number of places boarded up and literally completely dark, I'm interested in tips and techniques for getting decent pics in these spaces.

In my experience so far, direct flash on camera is ok to document these spaces, particularly if using a decent external flash, but it doesn't look amazingly pretty.

Bounce flash is usually not that great either, largely because there aren't a lot of expanses of white to bounce off of, and light tends to get absorbed by rotting wood and other decay quite nicely.

I started to get better results using manual exposures pretty slow and flash on rear-curtian sync, using my torch to highlight stuff. So for example, tunnel or corridor shots can be illuminated up close by the flash, with the torchlight being burned in at the dark far off places by the long exposures - and this can be done hand-held so it's a nice quick-and-dirty technique - the flash keeps things sharp.

Off-camera flash is probably the best way to go, and I have a cheap and cheerful solution. The problems with this method, especially if you are on your own is having the time and gear to mount the flash where you want. A gorilla pod or using your tripod is probably the best bet, unless you have a helper standing by.

I found that having the flash coming towards the camera across the frame, but with the flash source out of frame can be interesting for picking out details and texture.

Also, one flash unit is probably not enough to do something interesting with lighting, and there usually isn't much ability to set up complicated lighting scenarios on an explore anyway. But I am experimenting slowly with OCF setups when I can to try and improve my shots.

So how are you guys doing it? What techniques are working for you in these dark, virtually no natural light at all places?

Obviously this thread is not intended for the "I just use my phone camera mate" peeps, thanks ;)

[styru]

Used well flash can be OK, off camera flash is obviously better, and can give spectacular results (occasionally)

However, your question is how do us lot do it - and the simple answer is most of us don't.

I think I've used a flash about twice in the last 6 months.

Most camera flashes are designed to make it look like daylight - because that is what your average photographer taking pics of a night out or a birthday party wants - and that is not what you will be wanting. Places that are dark should still look dark in pics (IMO) - washed out false daylight just looks bad.

Take a look through the reports on here - you will find very few that use flash.

Try the underground section - it doesn't come much darker than that, and even there flash is very much in the minority.

The answer is long exposure and light painting with a torch (and not even a 'big' one necessarily - the ones below were all done with a 2AA torch)

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m227/styru/browns/DSC_5018.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m227/styru/browns/DSC_5069.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m227/styru/westwood/DSC_7033.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m227/styru/Westwood_2/DSC_7292.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m227/styru/Swan/DSC_3300.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m227/styru/Westwood_2/DSC_7216.jpg

And it's just the same for buildings, better results can often be had with no flash.

This one, in the dark, 30 second exposure, silly little torch:

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m227/styru/Pyestock/DSC_5663.jpg

And once again, taken with just the light from a £2.99 head-torch - imagine how washed out flash would make these:

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m227/styru/Westwood_3/DSC_7601.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m227/styru/westwood/DSC_7013.jpg

(and just to illustrate the point that you don't need fancy equipment - that one was taken on a 50 year old Russian lens that cost £10 - including postage - on Ebay and lit with said £2.99 petrol station head-torch)

Don't get me wrong, flash has it's place (and I'm sure someone will be able to post some great flash pics) and can be used very artistically - but it is, as I say, not the way most of us do it :cool:

So go play - you'll soon get results that are far better than with a flash.

.

[badwabbit]

Thanks styru - yeah, I forgot to mention light painting in my post. It's great fun to do and I've only recently started doing some on explores, and while I'm still getting the hang of it, some of my attempts have had enough positive results that I'm certainly going to be trying more of it.

I agree with all of what you say about flash - although it doesn't have to be that washed out daylight - you can for example simulate natural light (to a degree) coming through windows - but yes, on camera flash largely sucks...

I need to do some more hands on stuff, really. Thanks for the pointers...

[Bunk3r]

I've been playing with off camera flash, it is fun and can be great but for exploring torch is still king. You are going to be carrying a torch anyway, and its easier to manage (easier to direct and get more light where you want etc)

[badwabbit]

Yeah, I generally carry both a hand torch, and a little AA maglite which can do a point source or widen out the beam for a more diffuse effect. Small but handy!

What I really need to get a handle on is typically exposure times and get a feel for how much light from the various sources is enough - need to do a bit of testing. For example, out in the field there was a cool old staff room which had playing cards on the floor, and I light painted the cards to highlight them out - it would have been great, but I massively over-exposed each torch-painted card which kinda buggered it up :)

Once I've got a feel for how much light to use it'll be much better methinks.

[badwabbit]

Yeah - multiple flashes, as well as being pricey, requires too much setup on a typical explore, especially on my own. I do want a second 580EXII, but I see new glass in my future before that :)

I think light painting with a tripod is the best method and I've been shooting some tests to get a feel on exposure times, apertures vs torch and subject sizes etc and I've been pretty pleased with the results, and am much more confident in setting up and getting acceptable results...

Thanks for the tips everyone, very helpful.

[Treadstone]

You've got to the point I was going to make. I use multiple flashes in the studio where carrying stuff round is not a problem. Taking multiple flashes on an explore ... hmmm less sure. about that. What you can do with a tripod is to leave the camera on the tripod with the shutter open and fire the flash from more than one place. That's painting with light - just coarsely :-)
One thing I would do is to shoot in RAW format if you can - that way you have greater ability to play with exposure , contrast and curves after the event.

[badwabbit]

What you can do with a tripod is to leave the camera on the tripod with the shutter open and fire the flash from more than one place. That's painting with light - just coarsely :-)

This is something else I tried, and was expecting it to work really well - especially a gridded flash to highlight particular subjects. However, I did not get great results with it - partly because light intensity is related to how long the light lasts on long exposures, and flash pulses are really short - even on full power, the amount of light that hits a long exposure is tiny, and therefore you get very little. A torch is a litle more focused than just throwing light bombs everywhere ;)

I need to do a little more testing with this though, because I've done similar things in the past (like run around flashing trees to light them in long exposures)... again, it's really getting a handle on the variables and knowing broadly where you need to be, rather than just doing it blind and hoping for the best on an explore.


One thing I would do is to shoot in RAW format if you can - that way you have greater ability to play with exposure , contrast and curves after the event.

Of course - never shoot anything else. :)

[Brick_Man]

pretty much all my dark/underground stuff is shot with a tesco (type) 3w led torch with a fairly focussed beam and/or a free powerful 80's flashgun, and just whap the crap out of it.
Just so long as the head of the flash isn't ever exposed to the lens, you can get some amazing results.

I find using flashguns give more accuracte results, i.e less 'test' shots to get it right how you wanted it, as you can count... 3whaps behind right wall, 6whaps behind desk, 2whaps behind person, then stand back behind left wall and 10whaps. get results then, ah, there was too much there, I'll remove 2whaps.
Versus a torch, its a lot less accurate nad you can spend AGES wiggling about the place.

Static lighting is a fair bit easier as most cameras will be able to meter low enough to pretty much work th exposure out on their own (either from what little natural lgiht there is, or a few torchs/candles/Uber fluros' strategically placed in frame), and then you add a person to it wiggling a torch or whapping a falshgun to get a silouette, shadow or clean person.

Then once I've got ht shot I want (in a drain/mine/untergrund) I transfer the settings onto film so I only have to use 1 frame, not 4 or 5.

[Oxygen Thief]

Yeah that sounds really easy brickman :crazy

Get a decent torch and light painting is easy.

[Alias]

turn the lights on?

[True_British_Metal]

How d'you use wireless flash? I mean, when the camera is separate from the from the flash on 2 seperate tripods. I've got a Sony A350 and a Sigma EF-530 SUPER Flashgun, so is there something that you put on one of them to link them up so they go off at the same time?

[badwabbit]

Yes, wireless flash triggers. You can do it optically, cheap ebay radio triggers, or expensive commercial triggers such as Pocketwizards or Radiopoppers.

[True_British_Metal]

Yes, wireless flash triggers. You can do it optically, cheap ebay radio triggers, or expensive commercial triggers such as Pocketwizards or Radiopoppers.

Cheers buddy. Much appreciated. Is this what I'm looking for?

http://www.jessops.com/online.store/products/74096/show.html

[badwabbit]

Well, *wireless* flash kinda suggests *not* using a wire, no? :)

Yes, that will work, but it won't give you wireless flash, obviously...

[True_British_Metal]

Well, *wireless* flash kinda suggests *not* using a wire, no? :)

Yes, that will work, but it won't give you wireless flash, obviously...

Well that's excellent. I know it's not quite wireless, but it just shows me that you can use the flash off of the camera. I'll be getting one for my band photography.

[badwabbit]

What I recommend, on low budget, is the cheap radio triggers.

Getting flash off-camera is *absolutely* worthwhile. Cables are great in that you keep the flash/camera communication (in Canon/Nikon speak, that's iTTL or eTTL), but a pain in that you can only move the flash a few feet from the camera, and have wires to trip over.

A set of ebay triggers will cost you £20/30, and let you move the flash unit thirty feet away pretty reliably (or a few hundred feet for the more expensive options).

But if an OCF cable will do the job you require, then go for it!

[Bunk3r]

there are other triggers but look at the RF-602 triggers first as something to compare to (as above they don't do ttl but just set your power manually and for the cost you are laughing)

Edit actually 602s are probs not the best for you as you have a sony with the funny hotshoe, but they are still something to compare to.

[True_British_Metal]

What I recommend, on low budget, is the cheap radio triggers.

Getting flash off-camera is *absolutely* worthwhile. Cables are great in that you keep the flash/camera communication (in Canon/Nikon speak, that's iTTL or eTTL), but a pain in that you can only move the flash a few feet from the camera, and have wires to trip over.

A set of ebay triggers will cost you £20/30, and let you move the flash unit thirty feet away pretty reliably (or a few hundred feet for the more expensive options).

But if an OCF cable will do the job you require, then go for it!

D'you have any examples of wireless triggers that would go with a Sony A350 and a Sigma EF-530 SUPER Flashgun?

Thanks very much

[Alias]

http://tinyurl.com/275btmk

[True_British_Metal]

I've had a look on Amazon, and I've found these. Any good?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Channel-PT-04-Wireless-Trigger-Receivers/dp/B002G90S00/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1272876866&sr=8-6

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Channel-Wireless-Trigger-Control-Remote/dp/B002G95FXA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1272876866&sr=8-1

[Oxygen Thief]

Read the reviews on Amazon from people who actually bought these.

[Dark Prince]

When i started out with my 300D i bought 2 huge Metz CL flash guns, Canon flash unit, slave triggers (wired) and off i went into the mines. If the flashes all work together, then great, but more often than not one unit wouldn't go off, batteries went flat, the wired triggers would play up and the second you checked them the sodding flash went off in your face!. Using multiple flashes can create stunning pics. I once helped set up 19 Metzs flashes of various types in Monkton Farleigh. We spent half a day trying to get some decent shots, and in the end all the flashes only ever went off together once! (yeah i know pics or it didn't happen...but i'll need the ouija board to get hold of this photo now..)

Then one day i discovered light painting. Aint used a flash underground now for 5 years or. Close up stuff i will use the on camera flash but thats it.

DP

[Bunk3r]

As far as Urbex goes now, I only use my Flashgun if the closest wall in the area (if you know what I mean) is further away than 19m (my torch only goes that far).


don't forget you can walk, I've lit tunnels walking down them, you can do it and not show up on the picture if you don't light yourself.

[True_British_Metal]

don't forget you can walk, I've lit tunnels walking down them, you can do it and not show up on the picture if you don't light yourself.

Yeah but wouldn't you appear as a great blur?

[Collingwood]

No Mate,
Did this one at the weekend, with 'a fellow explorer' walking down the middle with 2 different torches, 1 LED, 1 normal, hence the different colours!

C.

http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y308/M50005/Various/PortsmthPystock038.jpg

[badwabbit]

Yeah but wouldn't you appear as a great blur?

No, only anything that has light will "burn" onto the exposure. As you aren't lighting yourself, you are adding no light to what's already burnt onto those pixels, and thus you will not appear.

Or you can "ghost" yourself by adding a small amount of light on you, thus making you appear faded and ghostly on the image.

Note - I'm *always* using my on-camera flash in dark places now - not for the flash (I have the actual flash disabled) but for the focus assist - using just the camera, it's really difficult to focus lock onto objects in the dark, and the lens hunts like crazy. With the focus assist on my flash, it sends out IR light which the camera uses to achieve focus lock almost instantly - really handy...

[Bunk3r]

Yeah but wouldn't you appear as a great blur?

the camera catches light, no light no additions to the picture so as long as nothing is shining on your back when you are infront of the camera you wont show up (the same as the shutter been closed on a film camera stops a picture been taken, the film is taking a picture all of the time (i find it easier to think of film and the way the picture is built up when doing long exposures))

[muppix]

I use Nikon's own wireless system to drive one SB900 and one SB800 from my D700. Been thinking about the Pocket Wizard route, but I like to be able to adjust the strobes individually right from the camera, and as far as I know the Pocket Wizards only let you trigger them. Nikon's own system lets me control the power for each flash individually (in M flash mode) and even give iTTL if you feel that way inclined. Yes, the Nikon strobes cost a bit more, but Pocket Wizards aren't that cheap either. Of course the downside is that there's way more kit to carry - especially if you add a couple of super clamps, a magic arm and a light stand or two - but it all depends what your priorities are.

This was taken in manual mode, first adjusting the exposure so that the scene through the window was properly exposed, then bringing up the room using an SB800 camera-left. For added effect I put the SB900 behind the tyre to light up the Fido-esque graffiti on the wall behind me.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4029/4288690815_cd9f400b80.jpg

Another shot with two off-camera strobes; one bungee'd to the window frame and warm gelled, the other in the back of the room just to stop the doorway becoming a black hole. The Nikon remote system works off IR and doesn't have to be line-of-sight between the camera and the strobe, just as long as the IR has somewhere to bounce off. The 2 day visit this was taken on was dedicated to getting this shot, so I took my time. Appreciate not everybody has that luxury on most explores.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4048/4483025619_0326fcf43b.jpg

I've done some lightpainting too but never really seem to get the effect I want on larger subjects, so I've only kept it as a fall-back method for altra-light trips or recon missions. Works quite well on smaller stuff though.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v349/28/30/668537240/n668537240_903200_9545.jpg

On a side note, I've found that no matter how you choose to light your scene, how you trigger the camera is equally important. The 10 seconds afforded by your self timer may not be enough for you to get into position for that awesome self portrait, especially when the camera is held 8' up a scaffold and your posing platform is on the other side of a dark building site. Tripping and falling is one thing, falling 300 feet is another, so get yourself a remote trigger. I went for the Phottix Plato (http://www.google.co.uk/products?hl=en&rlz=&q=phottix+plato&lr=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=_Q3gS7DxNIOM0gTvpsGVCA&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQrQQwAA), and am very, very impressed.

m.