Out of Control Security at Denbigh - Take Action

[Oxygen Thief]

The exploring forums are full of stories of 'The Beard' threatening explorers into Denbigh with his dog. This has been going on for several years maybe, and it's about time we put an end to this behaviour.

The point is this. While we should assume that some security is always to be expected, we should also expect this to be authorised and legal.

This vigilante is acting illegally by one or more of the following actions.

1) If he is acting on behalf of the landowner, then he needs an SIA licence. It's fairly obvious this isn't the case.

2) If he isn't acting on behalf of the landowner, then he's just acting like a thug. Ask yourself, if a random came up to you with a dog, threatened you and told you to leave, would you consider this an offence? I would. That's all this guy is doing under a false pretence of 'security'

3) According to the SIA, "frontline staff must wear the licence where it can be seen at all times when engaging in designated licensable activity". He does not display his licence, and refuses to produce on demand. So even if he's got his wires crossed, "they must carry their licence on them and be able to produce it on request"

It's all serious stuff...

Should a case against an individual believed to be in breach of the Act be prosecuted as a summary conviction at a Magistrate’s Court, Sheriff Court or District Court, there is a maximum penalty of six months imprisonment and/or a fine of up to £5,000...

So what can be done. In my opinion, anyone who's ever been stopped by this guy and done nothing, is lame. Just because you're trespassing, doesn't make his actions correct. So lets stop him in his tracks.

First, Report him to the SIA...

http://www.sia.homeoffice.gov.uk/Pages/Report-Illegal-Activity.aspx

You can upload pictures of the goon to them as well.

Second, report him to the Police directly...

http://www.north-wales.police.uk/nwpv2/en/contact/index.asp

or anonymously through crimestoppers...

https://secure.crimestoppers-uk.org/ams.form.anonymous.asp


Thanks for reading and hopefully taking action. Feel free to cross post.

-----------------------------

The following images are not mine, I found them via google images...

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/denbigh%20april%202010/denbighsecuritygrumpybeardsm.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/denbigh%20april%202010/onemanandhisdogdenbighsm.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/denbigh%20april%202010/denbighsecurity1april2010sm.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/denbigh%20april%202010/denbighsecurity2april2010sm.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3462/3295158078_30c818daac.jpg

Pictures are not mine and shown for example only.

If you have images of beardy, please add them below.

[Horus]

Should make this a sticky mate its very useful information, thanks

[Oxygen Thief]

Lets keep it real. No threats of violence etc.

[Ojay]

Hes also been known to let his dog off the lead and run at people in the past, now I thought there was some law like dangerous dogs act or summat?

[Ojay]

I don't even think beardy is SIA approved, I heard he looks after livestock on the nearby land?

Be interested to persue who his actuall employers are if anybody, but yeah OT maybe a quick enquiry with the SIA may not be such a bad idea.

[georgie]

No it wasn't :crazy

no worries lol in all seriousness though a quality thread, its about time something was done about him,i myself havent met him so cant comment personally but from what ive heard lately he needs stopping

[georgie]

I don't even think beardy is SIA approved, I heard he looks after livestock on the nearby land?

Be interested to persue who his actuall employers are if anybody, but yeah OT maybe a quick enquiry with the SIA may not be such a bad idea.

apparently he owns them donkeys or whatever they are on the nurses quarters field

[Ojay]

He actually hit I friend of a guy I know a while back, at the time we all thought it was bullshit but I since found out it was true, but he was a young lad who was worried about repercussions so never persued the matter :banghead

[mookster]

Earns him fuck all with me, I want to see him shafted, and I will.

Same. About time he was brought to book.

I'd like to see Denbigh without a dog up my trumpet, ideally.

[Oxygen Thief]

Same. About time he was brought to book.

I'd like to see Denbigh without a dog up my trumpet, ideally.

Hey I wouldn't mind if it was proper security, goes with the territory, but I don't see why we should be harassed by this lunatic.

[Ojay]

I would suggest anyone who has had dealings with him, past or present SHOULD contact the SIA and report him to the Police in all seriousness, like OT said if you get caught it's fair game, just offer to leave, he has no right to threaten people.

I have heard of one person being attacked by him and one person being attacked by his dog in the past 18 months.

The dog incident was reported to the Police at the time tho, not sure what the outcome was, what I do know is that the local Police have issues with the guy, but sadly nobody bothers to report his actions.

OK, trespassing is something we do that isn't right, but I for one have always co-operated with Police/Security when busted and never had any real problems as a whole.

At the end of the day people have a job to do, protect buildings etc but as above this behaviour from 'Beardy' should not and cannot be tolerated

[/RANT]

[diehardlove]

I would suggest anyone who has had dealings with him, past or present SHOULD contact the SIA and report him to the Police in all seriousness, like OT said if you get caught it's fair game, just offer to leave, he has no right to threaten people.

I have heard of one person being attacked by him and one person being attacked by his dog in the past 18 months.

The dog incident was reported to the Police at the time tho, not sure what the outcome was, what I do know is that the local Police have issues with the guy, but sadly nobody bothers to report his actions.

OK, trespassing is something we do that isn't right, but I for one have always co-operated with Police/Security when busted and never had any real problems as a whole.

At the end of the day people have a job to do, protect buildings etc but as above this behaviour from 'Beardy' should not and cannot be tolerated

[/RANT]

Totally agree :thumb

[Ojay]

If SIA recieve more than one call this week, then they have to act, unless of course he has no licence...

[Oxygen Thief]

Ahh but if he doesn't has a licence, they have to act also.


Engaging in licensable conduct without a licence [Section 3(1)]

[diehardlove]

Ahh but if he doesn't has a licence, they have to act also.


Engaging in licensable conduct without a licence [Section 3(1)]

Doesn't it then make it a criminal offense !?

[Oxygen Thief]

Doesn't it then make it a criminal offense !?

Sure does.

Upon summary conviction at a Magistrates’ Court or Sheriff Court., a maximum penalty of six months imprisonment and/or a fine of up to £5,000.

[Ojay]

Register of Licence Holders

Once a licence has been issued, details about the licence holder are held on a register and made available to the public. Establishing and maintaining a register is required under section 12 of the Private Security Industry Act.

[keffa]

Does anyone have his proper name and it's probably less likely, his address? It would be a great deal more use to them than "The Beard". :thumb

[Thestig]

Here Here, get the bastard done all im saying, i was at Denbigh during new year with 4 other explorers and got to admit the place was like a holiday camp as we saw well over 8 other people in/around the place and we saw beardy in action with is dog, but that wasnt the reason why we left, we saw his side kick (Rambo we call him) a bloke in a white van dressed up in full comando outfit with one hell of a mother fucker riffle, as we left we got shouted at by Ramdo who quickly got onto his mobile talking to someone. So here another question, does Rambo have a licence for his gun??? and also beardy has a habbit of walking into the buildings too....is he 'tresspassing' aswell.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5004/5318058414_674f297685_z.jpg
Picture by a fellow splorer on the day (Nickweb)

[Ojay]

A usefull link http://www.sia.homeoffice.gov.uk/Pages/contact-complaint.aspx

[buddah]

If its an air riffle you wouldnt need one which i imagine thats what that is. To me i would of thought he would be out shooting rats or rabbits.

[Oxygen Thief]

A usefull link http://www.sia.homeoffice.gov.uk/Pages/contact-complaint.aspx

That's to complain about the SIA, not to report unlicenced operators. We'll use that when we don't hear anything back after reporting the beard.

This is more relevant...

http://www.sia.homeoffice.gov.uk/Pages/Report-Illegal-Activity.aspx

[Ojay]

If its an air riffle you wouldnt need one which i imagine thats what that is. To me i would of thought he would be out shooting rats or rabbits.

Possibly, slightly off topic but I had that other goon at Winstanley Hall pull a shot gun on me last year from the other side of a field, I rang crimestoppers and let them deal with it, I got a follow up call to say they had addressed the matter, whatever that meant

[diehardlove]

If its an air riffle you wouldnt need one which i imagine thats what that is. To me i would of thought he would be out shooting rats or rabbits.

Going on to private land, or water, where you do not have permission is trespassing, and if you are carrying an air rifle it becomes armed trespass. Whether the gun is loaded or not, or whether you are carrying pellets, is irrelevant – armed trespass is a serious criminal offence carrying heavy penalties.

[Oxygen Thief]

Yeah that should have happened with the shotgun wielding pikeys at Holliday Pigments as well.

[Surrey_Chick]

No offense Buddah but your coming across a bit of a numpty. You may not have seen him, but others have and he's behaved irrationally for him to assault somebody or use his dog to is out of order, its not like its some little lap dog either. I've seen police dogs being trained and even they do not attack only grip on and hold until ordered to stop (ideally, of course sometimes they do get carried away) I highly doubt this dog has that level of training and with an irrational owner well, who knows what the dog is capable of. I think anybody who has had a run in with this bloke should complain by the sounds of it if you've not then don't bother but don't try and make out what he's doing is fine, its not.

Rant over!

[Horus]

If its an air riffle you wouldnt need one which i imagine thats what that is. To me i would of thought he would be out shooting rats or rabbits.

So then beardy is choosing who to let on the land

[Oxygen Thief]

Going on to private land, or water, where you do not have permission is trespassing, and if you are carrying an air rifle it becomes armed trespass. Whether the gun is loaded or not, or whether you are carrying pellets, is irrelevant – armed trespass is a serious criminal offence carrying heavy penalties.

He might have permission though?

[diehardlove]

Possibly, slightly off topic but I had that other goon at Winstanley Hall pull a shot gun on me last year from the other side of a field, I rang crimestoppers and let them deal with it, I got a follow up call to say they had addressed the matter, whatever that meant

Fucking serious offense that is mate can get 5 years for it even if unloaded.

[Ojay]

I also heard that Beardy is ofering private tours, at least a couple of people I know have seen him showing groups of people around now in last couple of months

[Oxygen Thief]

Don't you understand ? He's not allowed to do this.

[diehardlove]

He might have permission though?

He might lets hope he doesn't lol
lets hope everyone who has had trouble with him comes forward and complains.

[Nic81]

If its an air riffle you wouldnt need one which i imagine thats what that is. To me i would of thought he would be out shooting rats or rabbits.

so if hes out shooting rats or rabbits....why his he wondering around/in the van with Beardy and the dog and chasing people off the site??????????????

That gun frightened the life out of me, to the point where every explore i have done since every door bang has made me think back to Denbigh and i have only felt comfortable doing explores since in larger numbers than 2.


If only you got to see the mysterious invisible guard in that video.

Yeah we noticed that too ....lol

[buddah]

eek not allowed to post anymore?

[Oxygen Thief]

Just keeping it on track and relevant to the original post.

[buddah]

No offense Buddah but your coming across a bit of a numpty. You may not have seen him, but others have and he's behaved irrationally for him to assault somebody or use his dog to is out of order, its not like its some little lap dog either. I've seen police dogs being trained and even they do not attack only grip on and hold until ordered to stop (ideally, of course sometimes they do get carried away) I highly doubt this dog has that level of training and with an irrational owner well, who knows what the dog is capable of. I think anybody who has had a run in with this bloke should complain by the sounds of it if you've not then don't bother but don't try and make out what he's doing is fine, its not.

Rant over!


Why is this relevant ?

[buddah]

All my posts of gone even the first one, which i thought had valid points. Why open it as a thread for people to have a say but then delete the ones that dont fit with everyone else's opinion.

[mookster]

Why is this relevant ?

Maybe if you read it you'll understand justified concerns about an unlicensed idiot using a dog which nobody has any idea of how well the thing is trained, like was pointed out police dogs grip and hold until told to let go, who knows what this dog could do.

[styru]

Why open it as a thread for people to have a say but then delete the ones that dont fit with everyone else's opinion.

FFS Buddah - did your brain not survive the clocks going forward?

This was never intended as an open discussion - people have been discussing this for months if not years. This thread was about finally getting it sorted.

You filling the thread with crap really isn't helping is it

[Xan_Asmodi]

I've reported him to the SIA, and I'll be talking to the guys that I explored with last night to see if they'll be willing to make a statement to the police about his threats to set the pooch on us.

[Treadstone]

Hey I wouldn't mind if it was proper security, goes with the territory, but I don't see why we should be harassed by this lunatic.


That says it all. Security which behaves in a way which is rational , proportionate and legal is fine. I was asked to leave Lillesden by a guy who ticked all those boxes. He was acting on his own, probably without the knowledge of the owner let alone the SIA and the group of us could have told him to get stuffed, but he was polite and so we were polite back...


yeah but he see's that as his to protect which is why he may act in the way he does.

He's entitled to see things any way he likes and I might even have some sympathy with his view, but when he acts he must not cross over into criminality. We tresspass: that is not criminal (with a few exceptions). And I've expressed views elsewhere about siding with people who tresspass in order to do other things which are criminal. It's a valid defence to do something illegal to prevent a worse crime or to protect yourself; but he's not doing that, he's escalating things.

If he does have action taken against him and he is banned form ever entering the asylum grounds again.

That and its consequences are not for us to worry about.
It doesn't matter it is police, paid security or the likes of Mr Beard: if you find your self on wrong end of violence or the threat of it, your best bet is to put it in the hands the proper authority (Police complaints process, SIA report etc). If someone makes you feel you are under threat, get your phone out dial 999, there and then if at all possible. That will give your location and should have police sent.

If his behaviour is legal, or has an valid legal defence there will be no sanction against him. If he is a hazard to other people you will have acted for the greater good. It's not for you to decide which of those is the case, or what should be done - that would leave you guilty of exactly what Mr Beard is being accused of.

Everything I've heard suggests he is not rational, and he may end up threatening someone who responds by doing him harm; in that case you'd also be doing him a favour by getting the authorities to put a stop to his behavior.

[True_British_Metal]

Right if it helps this is what I know and have experienced about him.

-My encounter: I was caught in the field by Nurses Residence (NOT EVEN IN A BUILDING) with some ghost hunters I thought I'd just tag along with (I hate them too, yes). He was in the car with his son (?) by admin. I ran away up the hill and hid whilst the hunters went back to their car when he came up and got them. I came out of my hiding place onto the road thinking he'd gone but he wasn't so I ran up the road (big mistake) and was chased up the road in his VAN until he raced past and cornered me (almost running me over, NO JOKE) in a layby. He asked me what I was doing, I apologised but before I could finish I was ordered to empty my bag, get my camera out and delete pics. He forced me to delete pics so I did 'cause I was alone and didn't want to risk anything. He got his dog out and said if I didn't do what he said he'd smash my equipment and set the dog on me. I did everything and he told me to fuck off and never come back. I continued up the road and asked someone for directions to the police station, he came up behind me, stopped and reversed beside me and said "what are you doing now?" I just legged it again. Got a lift from a painter and decorator to the police station and he said he knows him 'cause they both have dogs. P&Der said he's well known for a pyschotic temper.

-SIA badge: I asked him if he worked for Force 5 Security (see placards around outside, he said yes. I asked him to show his badge and he said "NO I don't have to show you anything!"

-Police report: I went in for a testimony and they said it will be recorded as a crime. He was later arrested (by this time I was long since back at home) and taken in for questioning. Police called me and said he was given a stern talking to and he now knows what he can and can't do. Oh and he was back at Denbigh. Fuck all happened.

-Beard: He's called Elwyn Pierce, lives a 2 min walk from asylum. It's confirmed he's either an ex-caretaker or a gardener from when it was open. According to police he's now employed by Lancashire Freemont to check up on the place. I've heard rumours of him (from another forum) actually assaulting people, but judging from the comments after the victim didn't follow it up 'cause he didn't think their was enough evidence to prosecute.

-Tours: It's likely that those tours are for people from the North Wales Hospital society. See link here.
(http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2011/03/09/shocking-state-of-former-denbigh-mental-hospital-revealed-55578-28303338/)
-Gunman: Never seen him but I reported the pics to the chief of police at Denbigh and these were his responses:

let me reassure you that neither Elwyn nor the other male who I know of, are carrying firearms. Elwyn is employed by the owners of the site to report any potential offences to the police.

Hope this helps, Chris Davies PC 1827

I will look into the pictures, Chris

---------------------------
He never did. Hope that helps.

[Ojay]

Excellent stuff TBM :thumb

Now can everyone else follow up with complaints of this goon if there are any more incidents please. I'm gonna get onto SIA tomorrow.

Hey TBM can you PM me the crime ref no. please :)

[Ojay]

Interesting, he doesn't appear on the SIA register?

Has anyone got any pics to confirm the security company, is it Force 5?

[True_British_Metal]

Excellent stuff TBM :thumb

Now can everyone else follow up with complaints of this goon if there are any more incidents please. I'm gonna get onto SIA tomorrow.

Hey TBM can you PM me the crime ref no. please :)
Thanks for the encouragement OJ. Sorry but I wasn't given a form about the crime ref no. but what I can do is get in touch with the woman who took my testimony, ask for it and pass it on to you. Would that be OK?

If you want pics of the placard, they're up on the railings to the field and at the front gates.

[Thestig]

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i396/davidburnitt1/File0143.jpg

And here a picture of Elwyn Pierice from when he used yo work at Denbigh as a caretaker, heard once or twices that he still has the keys for the place but i dont think they be needed now by the state of the place

I know its alittle of the subject but this is were i found the pics, along with some other old pictures from when Denbigh was up and running

LINK (http://www.pikeo.com/pikeo.jsp?ctx=3c696e6974207665723d22322e30223e3c70 69643e353736373032323c2f7069643e3c756e3e477765726e 616e743c2f756e3e3c2f696e69743e)

[Ojay]

Its freemont Denbigh LTD, not force 5 he is accountable too, anyone dig out a contact and forward it onto me :)

[True_British_Metal]

Bloody hell his teeth have gone downhill haven't they? LOL

[Oxygen Thief]

Outstanding info there TBM, thanks.

[Thestig]

Phase 5 Security according the front gates.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=53.175558,-3.419015&spn=0,0.005262&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.175558,-3.419015&panoid=4GsYzHahgsMUoXsZtfSPAQ&cbp=12,183.54,,2,4.71

[ZerO81]

Did phase 5 not used to be the security company - see below google map streetview image:-

Street View (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=hospital&aq=&sll=53.175486,-3.411512&sspn=0.010443,0.033023&ie=UTF8&t=h&rq=1&ev=p&radius=0.82&split=1&hq=hospital&hnear=&ll=53.17546,-3.418894&spn=0,0.033023&z=16&layer=c&cbll=53.175558,-3.419015&panoid=4GsYzHahgsMUoXsZtfSPAQ&cbp=12,191.08,,1,11.06)

When I wen i January, the Phase 5 sign had gone off the gate and had not been replaced:-

http://urbandegeneration.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Denbigh_Gate.jpg

**EDIT - Sorry for the double streetview link - TheStig posted as i was adding my reply**

[Oxygen Thief]

Phase 5 Security according the front gates.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=53.175558,-3.419015&spn=0,0.005262&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.175558,-3.419015&panoid=4GsYzHahgsMUoXsZtfSPAQ&cbp=12,183.54,,2,4.71


Contact details and stuff...

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/place?um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=212,+Warrington+Rd,+Widnes,+Cheshire+WA8+0AX&fb=1&gl=uk&hnear=Salisbury,+Wiltshire+SP4+0BY&cid=6622893656290183005

[54Strat]

Same story as TBM, except he set the dog at me when I didn't delete my pics. The dog bit the camera (no real damage), he called it off whe I got my phone out and called 999. Same as TBM, he was arrested and told off. The Police advised me that he'd said it would be his word against mine so I didn't pursue it further legally.

Sorry, I've lost the crime number, but I do have his address.

[Oxygen Thief]

Same story as TBM, except he set the dog at me when I didn't delete my pics. The dog bit the camera (no real damage), he called it off whe I got my phone out and called 999. Same as TBM, he was arrested and told off. The Police advised me that he'd said it would be his word against mine so I didn't pursue it further legally.

Sorry, I've lost the crime number, but I do have his address.

At least report him to the SIA mate.

[54Strat]

Will do. Hopefully it will force the owners to take responsibility for his actions.

[True_British_Metal]

A spokesperson for Denbighshire County Council said they had emphasised their concerns about the lack of security on the site to Mr Bhailok. “Denbighshire County Council has repeatedly stressed to the owner of North Wales Hospital the importance of improving security on the site to avoid assets being stripped from the site, which has been happening over the past few years and which has contributed to the deterioration of the building,” he said. “The council is actively considering all possible options.”
...
Mr Bhailok declined to comment. Link here. (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2010/09/14/looters-stripping-the-fittings-from-listed-gem-of-a-victorian-hospital-91466-27261353/)

Someone REALLY needs to get him to do something but I very much doubt he actually cares about the hospital at all.

[AndrewB]

Great thread, Hopefully this ass gets whats coming to him.

I have never been to denbigh so never met him but have heard all the stories.

[ZerO81]

Mr Bhailok's Firm is called Acebench, they are apparently based in Preston and also in the Virgin islands ACEBENCH LIMITED (http://www.creditgate.com/companysearch/ACEBENCH+LIMITED.aspx)

[Xan_Asmodi]

I've spoken to Shadow_Play and he'll bear witness to the threats that where made against me

[Horus]

Won't it now go against you for taking so long to make the complaint?

[Treadstone]

-SIA badge: I asked him if he worked for Force 5 Security (see placards around outside, he said yes. I asked him to show his badge and he said "NO I don't have to show you anything!"


He is carrying outManned Guarding within the meaning of the Private Security Industry Act 2001 (as amended). (http://www.sia.homeoffice.gov.uk/Pages/licensing-manned-guarding.aspx) This requires a Licence, and it is a condition of that licence that it is displayed (see OT's post at the start, or at source (http://www.sia.homeoffice.gov.uk/Pages/licensing-conditions.aspx)). Either he has breached the terms of his licence , or he doesn't have a licence.



let me reassure you that neither Elwyn nor the other male who I know of, are carrying firearms. Elwyn is employed by the owners of the site to report any potential offences to the police.



Right. If the owners pay this guy to carry out manned guarding without an SIA licence then they are in breach of the act and may be subject to prosecution.

Seems to me the way forward would be to tell the owners what their legal position is. It might be put to them that now they have been made aware of the situation, the best way to avoid court-imposed penalties would be to tell Elwyn to cease his activities and stay off site in future.

[True_British_Metal]

I had an offer to appear in court and testify against him if it went that far but I declined 'cause I'd be in full time study. Shame that, would've done it myself.

[Xan_Asmodi]

It only happened yesterday

[Horus]

Ah right my bad

[Xan_Asmodi]

I'm on the phone to them now

[Ojay]

Who you ringing Xan, I couldn't find the no. for Freemont (Denbigh) LTD

[Xan_Asmodi]

I was ringing the police. The person in the control room wasn't cooperative at all. He made the point about me trespassing in the first place, as if that excused it, and said "well he didn't loose the dog, did he?" He seemed very reluctant to take the report off me, almost trying to dissuade me from making the complaint. I said I'd consult a lawyer and then see my position

[Treadstone]

Who you ringing Xan, I couldn't find the no. for Freemont (Denbigh) LTD

They're mentioned in various reports but interestingly Companies house has no record of them. That suggests they are registered off shore.

Searching for Mr Bhailok on-line turns up that he is a solicitor and a convicted bat molestor. Anyone wanting to really stir things up might want to look at how one ask the law society to review whether someone is a fit an proper person to practice as a solicitor.

[keffa]

With thanks to the other 28DL member who sent it to me, the name and address of this person for you to use when reporting him is as follows...

Elwyn Pierce

Address and phone number available from OT or Keffa - just ask by email.


I couldn't give a flying fuck about this guys privacy and hopefully neither will OT and will leave the details published so you can use it in your SIA reports. I've never encountered this guy during my visits which I can only say is fortunate for him but I've heard the stories from friends. Pricks like this make my blood boil because he thinks he has some god given do good right to do it, and he hasn't.

[Thestig]

I was ringing the police. The person in the control room wasn't cooperative at all. He made the point about me trespassing in the first place



Here we go again, the police "think" they know what they are on about. Think who ever works in the police call centre's should know the law of the land before taking calls

[Mexico75]

With thanks to the other 28DL member who sent it to me, the name and address of this person for you to use when reporting him is as follows...

Elwyn Pierce

Address and phone number available from OT or Keffa - just ask by email.

I couldn't give a flying fuck about this guys privacy and hopefully neither will OT and will leave the details published so you can use it in your SIA reports. I've never encountered this guy during my visits which I can only say is fortunate for him but I've heard the stories from friends. Pricks like this make my blood boil because he thinks he has some god given do good right to do it, and he hasn't.

Thats a really bad idea.

[diehardlove]

Thats a really bad idea.

Who for us or him ?

[Treadstone]

With thanks to the other 28DL member who sent it to me, the name and address of this person for you to use when reporting him is as follows...

I couldn't give a flying fuck about this guys privacy and hopefully neither will OT

2 wrongs don't make a right. There is saying "This is what to do when threatened - Mr Beard is a prime example", and starting a campaign against Mr Beard.

[keffa]

2 wrongs don't make a right. There is saying "This is what to do when threatened - Mr Beard is a prime example", and starting a campaign against Mr Beard.

Nobody is suggesting you start a campaign against him, but being able to say exactly who the individual is when it comes to dealing with the police and SIA will be a lot better than "Some guy with a beard".

[Oxygen Thief]

OK, it's not a good idea to post those addresses and phone numbers, I've edited them out BUT if you need them just ask me or Keffa.

[Xan_Asmodi]

Would it be better for me to report it to my local force in person, then have them hand it on?

[True_British_Metal]

... or me LOL

Can I just say that these people would be worth contacting as they were involved in my testimony against Elwyn and reporting the gunman:

PC 1827 Christopher Davies (reported gunman to him)
Sgt. 1924 Arwel Ellis (present before taking witness testimony)
PC 2626 Claire Williams (took testimony)

I'm not so sure about Chris since he didn't do much, but both Arwel and Claire were very supportive in my testimony.

[Hidden]

I heard of him threatening to let off a dog on ShadowPlay yesterday too if that is of any help.

[Xan_Asmodi]

I was with Shadow_Play, he's my witness if North Wales Police decide to take my report

[True_British_Metal]

And you can use my testimony to back me up. If I can tomorrow I'll get in contact with Claire.

[NightPanther]

Yeah. If we turned back he'd set his dog on us apparently. The dog got just centimetres away from a female non-member who was with us, a guy stood with beardy smiled at me and Xan as if he thought Beardy was being one huge Cnut, so not just us who thinks it.

[Xan_Asmodi]

And you can use my testimony to back me up. If I can tomorrow I'll get in contact with Claire.

You should have a PM soon with my name and phone number to pass on to Claire. Shadow_Play do you want to do the same?

[True_British_Metal]

Talking of his assistant, he was actually nice about it and simply said "did you not see the signs: trespassers will be prosecuted?" in a perfectly calm tone. The expression on his face was as if to say he didn't agree with anything Elwyn said. When I left he was nice about it and told me to take care and smiled. Nice guy.

[SparkUK]

He's a mile out of line by the look of it, it might be worth getting caught and videoing it.

[NickUk]

Beardy is an absolute prick. He was running tours in there and went mad when he saw us in there. The cheek of some people eh...

[Oxygen Thief]

Come on, lets keep this strictly informational.

More and more incidents are coming to light. Please, if you've been assaulted or even approached by this guy, get him reported using one or more of the methods in the original post.

[_Sparky_]

"people have started shifting stone!! including elwyn!" quote from Restoration for North Wales Hospital (Facebook). Recently! Heavy handed when NOT protecting the Hospital objectively a subtle hint of corruption here?! It is not the first time involvement removing material has been witnessed.

[Ojay]

Interesting, someone needs to inform freemont

[ZerO81]

Interesting, someone needs to inform freemont

Its not freemont who own denbigh...its AceBench Ltd (http://www.creditgate.com/companysearch/ACEBENCH+LIMITED.aspx)

[True_British_Metal]

Is Elwyn a pikey then?

Someone HAS GOT TO contact AceBench IMMEDIATELY!

[Bone]

Humm, he does appear to be a dog food stockist in the same town, for a company. Got a work phone number there also. I don't know how security works but given the freedom of information act and the fact he is 'licenced', is it possible to get his licence number ect by request?

It's not an area I know at all, but I have a ' official ' who frequents my establishment who keeps his business to himself but he did hint that if he is licenced the information could possibly be easily available. If he is not then his company, if he is on the payroll are in breach and can loose their operating licence and the guy could go to prison.

Only what's been hinted.........

[bungle666]

It sounds worryingly to me like some of the local police are siding with him?

this is the problem, its VERY like the "security" (ok 2 HUGE, VERY angry blokes with dogs and guns) at firbeck hall... we tried, we got caught we failed! but then had to endure half an hour of intimidation, threats of violence ETC untill the police arrived!

in the car on the way off the site, the copper admitted he is well known to them for this sort of behaviour, but seemed almost unwilling to act....

I got the impression they preferred having goons like this looking after the place than no/ineffective security at all!

B..

[Bone]

Duplicate post.

[MonkeyDan]

I'm pretty sure Beardy doesn't need an SIA license :-(

From what I remember, for buildings like this that are closed to the public and or workers it's classed as in-house guarding - for which there are no licensing requirements.

In fact - Just checked the SIA website:

"The Private Security Industry Act 2001 does not require manned guards employed in-house to be licensed unless their activities are in relation to licensed premises"

The best and only way to deal with this is by alerting the police when a criminal offence has been commited (Which to be honest it looks like people have started to do).

[bungle666]

I'm pretty sure Beardy doesn't need an SIA license :-(

From what I remember, for buildings like this that are closed to the public and or workers it's classed as in-house guarding - for which there are no licensing requirements.

In fact - Just checked the SIA website:

"The Private Security Industry Act 2001 does not require manned guards employed in-house to be licensed unless their activities are in relation to licensed premises"

The best and only way to deal with this is by alerting the police when a criminal offence has been committed (Which to be honest it looks like people have started to do).

hmmmmm so in other words if beardy is employed directly by the buildings owner, and paid a wage by them (with the relevant stamp and tax paid) then he is classed as "employed" and therefore "in house" and does not require an SIA ticket.

lets hope he's self employed eh!

B..

[vwdirtboy]

hmmmmm so in other words if beardy is employed directly by the buildings owner, and paid a wage by them (with the relevant stamp and tax paid) then he is classed as "employed" and therefore "in house" and does not require an SIA ticket.

lets hope he's self employed eh!

B..


I should imagine he's not 'employed' at all and just a retired old git clinging on to a lifetimes routine.. namely wandering around the place like he owns it!

[ZerO81]

I have been thinking about this situation today and have had a thought, Elwyn quite clearly has some crazy ways of dealing with people which should not be tolerated, but when all said and done, Elwyn is all that Denbigh does have.

Its quite clear from all that has been written about the owner that he does not give a fu*k about Denbigh, he has ignored court orders and has let previous planning permissions lapse so there is currently no viable plan in place for the hospital.

If you remove Elwyn, you remove all form of security on the site, if he goes, do you really think that the owners will suddenly re-employ real security, board up all the doors and windows and start looking after the property - its certainly not happened for the past 16 or so years, so why would it happen now?

Although internally very unstable, the building itself is something that could possibly be preserved and something done to it, you remove Elwyn, you open up the place for all sorts of people to do what ever they like - the main hall was torched and then demolished, without Elwyn, there will be a free-for-all for this to happen again, quite possibly to the main admin section.

I am not saying assaulting people himself and with his dog is in any way acceptable, but the reality is he is the only thing Denbigh has got, you remove him and you potentially remove any hope of a future for the building.

[Ojay]

It'a a valid point about him being on site etc etc, but still let's not detract from OT's original thread starter, that this is about zero tolerence regarding his behaviour and actions.

Despite him 'keeping an eye' on the place he is also threatening people, using a dog without proper handling & no doubt training, they guy is a liability, I mean ask yourself this peeps, out of all the places you have all been busted how many times honestly have you encountered behaviour like Beardy?

I suspect never or hardly ever... (Unless your name is DHL) :D

But seriously, this thread is about reporting matters to the relevant people if this persists. If he catches you it's fair game, be polite and leave simple, if he starts then try and record some evidence on your phone/camera and ring the Police.

Believe me if I visit Denbigh and he gives me any aggro he won't be getting away with it!

[Ojay]

Also,can someone post the local Police No. in this thread, just in-case anyone has future problems whilst there.

[Horus]

Its not the case of removing him, most if not all every member would'nt have a problem with him if he done the job right, what a sercurity is supposed to do, i know he may get sick of stopping people but thats part of the job roll, if he can't handle it then he should become a lolly pop man ect its how he is handling his job

[MonkeyDan]

out of all the places you have all been busted how many times honestly have you encountered behaviour like Beardy?


Quite - I was caught by 2 police officers yesterday as I strolled out of Potters. They were polite, said they could see I was a photographer and although doing no harm it was still Tresspass and they had to ask me to leave. No threats, no violence, no animosity. I'd got my photos, they'd responded, everyone happy.

From reading all the above and past reports you would never get that civilised a reaction from Beardy.

[Hidden]

I doubt his attitude will change until something happens which forces it to change.

[Oxygen Thief]

ZerO81, you're missing the point. He's got to do the job properly and legally. By supporting him you're saying that's it's Ok for him to assault explorers. You can't have it both ways.

[NightPanther]

If beardy is there or not the place is going and fast. Few more bad winters and that's it really, keeping him there is more dangerous than not in my opinion. Being with a young lady and a dog centimetres from biting her and being threatened the way we did the guy needs to be sorted and fast. No matter if he goes or stays the owners don't care for £310,000 pound for Denbigh, an that already returned to the owner plus more by selling the contents of the place he won't care. So let's not risk anymore threats or even attacks and get him reported as much as we can to the correct authorities

[Oxygen Thief]

Yeah lets face it, the bearded twat hasn't exactly kept people out, kept it secure, and undamaged has he?

[NightPanther]

Yeah lets face it, the bearded twat hasn't exactly kept people out, kept it secure, and undamaged has he?

Far from it. He can stop us but not a group or arsonists taking down the main hall? Priorities obviously in the wrong place IMHO

[ZerO81]

ZerO81, you're missing the point. He's got to do the job properly and legally. By supporting him you're saying that's it's Ok for him to assault explorers. You can't have it both ways.

I have not missed the point at all, I did say that Elwyn has some crazy ideas and i also said that him attacking people and his dog attacking people is not on at all - so, no i am not supporting him.

All i am saying is that he is doing the place a service, not always in the best way clearly by some reports that have come to light, but all we know about is stories from people off the UE forums who have been caught, we dont know about all the other people who have gone there for alternative reasons - arson etc and been caught and stopped from getting in.

Granted, he has missed some incidents - one pretty big one in the hall fire, but for all we know, he may have stopped other people from setting other major fires.

Its a hard situation really, as i said if you remove him, then Denbigh is left wide open to everyone to do what they like, but equally, true, he can't just get away with what pretty much amounts up to assault, there must be some form of half way point.

There are a number of action groups based in the area who are trying to save the place, who probably know Elwyn and may have even spoken to him - has anyone tried starting conversations with them in relation to Elwyn, explain what we do and why, explain we are not there to cause damage?

There is a story of him showing people round - could that not be people he knows - possibly people from this action group? If that was the case then it shows that he is not totally heartless or nasty is he and maybe with a bit more understanding something may be able to be sorted.

To clarify I do not condone his actions with the dog but equally, i think there must be an alternative to getting him reported, possibly jailed and the place left wide open.

[Flyboy]

Sounds like a top bloke.

This is what I'd be like if he caught me there.

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z330/flyboy747/45aba782_a58a_c341.gif

But in all seriousness he needs to be stopped. I can't stand people like this.

[True_British_Metal]

It's a long shot, but ego aside could he be acting like an utter wanker to scare people off so they never come back again? Particularly local kids looking for fun...

[Ojay]

It's a long shot, but ego aside could he be acting like an utter wanker to scare people off so they never come back again? Particularly local kids looking for fun...

Yeah but grown blokes with cameras & tripods, who are capable of knocking him into the ground like a tent peg, come on :banghead

[Xan_Asmodi]

he be acting like an utter wanker to scare people off so they never come back again? Particularly local kids looking for fun...

He said exactly that to Shadow_play and I. :wanker

[True_British_Metal]

Yeah but grown blokes with cameras & tripods, who are capable of knocking him into the ground like a tent peg, come on :banghead

As I said OJ it's a long shot so I understand where you're coming from, but perhaps he's seeing it from the point of view of the internal condition of the building.

To be quite honest, come to think of it it's not the case because if it was he'd have no reason to run into illegal territory.

[Ojay]

As I said OJ it's a long shot so I understand where you're coming from, but perhaps he's seeing it from the point of view of the internal condition of the building.

True, but still the goonage!

Might have to have a quiet word with 'beardy' sometime soon ;)

[True_British_Metal]

What I'd recommend is getting video footage so even if he smashes your camera that will easily stand against him. A hidden voice recorder is a good shot too (use your phone).

[Ojay]

What I'd recommend is getting video footage so even if he smashes your camera that will easily stand against him. A hidden voice recorder is a good shot too (use your phone).

Behave, he wouldn't get near my camera to smash it!

[diehardlove]

True, but still the goonage!

Might have to have a quiet word with 'beardy' sometime soon ;)

Lol;) very soon.

[True_British_Metal]

Well that's in extreme cases OJ. As you'd expect the bonus of recording it by whatever means it won't be your word against his because the evidence is THERE.

[Oxygen Thief]

I have not missed the point at all, I did say that Elwyn has some crazy ideas and i also said that him attacking people and his dog attacking people is not on at all - so, no i am not supporting him.

All i am saying is that he is doing the place a service, not always in the best way clearly by some reports that have come to light, but all we know about is stories from people off the UE forums who have been caught, we dont know about all the other people who have gone there for alternative reasons - arson etc and been caught and stopped from getting in.

Granted, he has missed some incidents - one pretty big one in the hall fire, but for all we know, he may have stopped other people from setting other major fires.

Its a hard situation really, as i said if you remove him, then Denbigh is left wide open to everyone to do what they like, but equally, true, he can't just get away with what pretty much amounts up to assault, there must be some form of half way point.

There are a number of action groups based in the area who are trying to save the place, who probably know Elwyn and may have even spoken to him - has anyone tried starting conversations with them in relation to Elwyn, explain what we do and why, explain we are not there to cause damage?

There is a story of him showing people round - could that not be people he knows - possibly people from this action group? If that was the case then it shows that he is not totally heartless or nasty is he and maybe with a bit more understanding something may be able to be sorted.

To clarify I do not condone his actions with the dog but equally, i think there must be an alternative to getting him reported, possibly jailed and the place left wide open.

Nobodies saying he (or any other security) shouldn't be there. What I'm saying is that it should be legal. He isn't operating within any law known to man, he's a criminal. If that's what you want, then I'm happy for you, you got it.

We're not responsible for these buildings. In and Out. Elwyn isn't responsible either. At the end of the day, it's easy to predict what will happen, security or not. It will get burned, get rotten, then converted and/or demolished. How come Denbigh is still standing with virtually no security, and West Park has seen its last days and that's had major security in the past, likewise cane Hill which is just a memory.

[True_British_Metal]

It will get burned, get rotten, then converted and/or demolished. How come Denbigh is still standing with virtually no security, and West Park has seen its last days and that's had major security in the past, likewise cane Hill which is just a memory.

Talking of which, it's phenomonal that Coney Hill was rebuilt considering it wasn't listed even though it's just admin now. Not to mention Cane Hill's extreme security measures - seems like a complete waste for them to go to all that trouble despite not being properly listed and to see it mostly demolished (don't see Admin surviving, don't know about Chapel or Water Tower). Even more incredible that Denbigh is grade-II (wards) and grade-II* listed (admin)! What other derelict asylum can you say is grade-II* listed, let alone a building (OK I can only think of Binswood which is reasonably well secured AFAIK)?

Before it was sold off to Freemont (what they were known as then) it MUST have had SOME security that's NOT Elwyn, surely?

[Ojay]

That was obviosuly when Force 5 provided static security

[True_British_Metal]

Yeah. When you say "static" security, does that just mean checking up on it, say twice a week and keeping it secure and not actually patrolling?

Oh and the number on the gates: who is it to? Freemont? Acebench? Googled it and it comes up with a Bristol area code.

[One Flew East]

Johnnie-come-lately input, but whatever.
This info really is about your potential dealings with police, rather than anything else.

(PS I'm interested to ask what prompted this post, and now?
OT your opening gambit features some pretty fine photos from other folks which I imagine would tend to help their particular case in any personal complaints made by them. (Shame there's no sound).

In response to a question posted earlier by someone who seems to have been given the 'fuck-off' by North Wales police call centre and was questioning whether they should report a complaint to their local force, the answer is an emphatic NO.
It should be reported directly to the force responsible for where the incident occurred.
If you find yourself in the regrettable position where you feel the need to make a report to the police, then you need to address the local force. There's a strong posibility that you may very well find yourself encountering a torrent of blather from the (civilian) operative directing you to speak to your local police when you get home.

This advice is totally *wrong*.

If you get this response then I strongly urge you to challenge that and ask to speak to their supervisor if necessary. They -will- take your instruction/complaint eventually.
Might mean you're on the phone initially for a little longer but in the long term it means your aggrieveance will be resolved more quickly.
Going back to an earlier point, if you happen to have been able to get photographic evidence of questionable behaviour, then e-mail it directly to the officer dealing (once you've got to the stage where your complaint is being investigated by an accredited officer - they'll all have a direct e-mail account).

Good luck.
I've never had any issues myself such as this yet, but you never know; it'll be amusing if/when I do.

[Xan_Asmodi]

Johnnie-come-lately input, but whatever.
This info really is about your potential dealings with police, rather than anything else.

(PS I'm interested to ask what prompted this post, and now?
OT your opening gambit features some pretty fine photos from other folks which I imagine would tend to help their particular case in any personal complaints made by them. (Shame there's no sound).

In response to a question posted earlier by someone who seems to have been given the 'fuck-off' by North Wales police call centre and was questioning whether they should report a complaint to their local force, the answer is an emphatic NO.
It should be reported directly to the force responsible for where the incident occurred.
If you find yourself in the regrettable position where you feel the need to make a report to the police, then you need to address the local force. There's a strong posibility that you may very well find yourself encountering a torrent of blather from the (civilian) operative directing you to speak to your local police when you get home.

This advice is totally *wrong*.

If you get this response then I strongly urge you to challenge that and ask to speak to their supervisor if necessary. They -will- take your instruction/complaint eventually.
Might mean you're on the phone initially for a little longer but in the long term it means your aggrieveance will be resolved more quickly.
Going back to an earlier point, if you happen to have been able to get photographic evidence of questionable behaviour, then e-mail it directly to the officer dealing (once you've got to the stage where your complaint is being investigated by an accredited officer - they'll all have a direct e-mail account).

Good luck.
I've never had any issues myself such as this yet, but you never know; it'll be amusing if/when I do.

This whole post seems to be directed at the problems I'm having. :rolleyes:

I believe it was my post on the ChatBox about Shadow_Play, myself and two non-members being threatened with the dog. I'll have another go at reporting it though. The call taker really didn't seem interested in taking the complaint and seemed to think our trespass excused being threatened with what appears, and apparently is, a vicious animal; even though to the best of my knowledge trespass is a civil offence and the threat made against us is a criminal offence. :crazy

[Ojay]

@xan, you really could do with pursuing this

[One Flew East]

If the four of you are each prepared to spend some time speaking to an officer and each of you give a statement, then that's all you can do. If there's sufficient evidence* of a criminal offence then they would pursue it (CPS notwithstanding).


*everyone, this is the key point here. If it looks wrong, if you can, record it.

If you're being threatened with physical violence on the spot then I appreciate you'll have to play it as it comes. Try and remain calm and serious, and they're more likely to take you seriously.

Seriously folks, don't take any shit just because you might be younger.

[Treadstone]

Also,can someone post the local Police No. in this thread, just in-case anyone has future problems whilst there.

Don't phone the local station, dial 999. It's handled differently, if you say you are being threatened they will get a fix on your mobile position and send someone out.

[54Strat]

Don't phone the local station, dial 999. It's handled differently, if you say you are being threatened they will get a fix on your mobile position and send someone out.

They were there in 5 mins when I called 999 at Denbigh, even had the sirens going. Must say, the police were fantastic here, and from what TBM posted earlier, it seems we even had the same officers.

[DubbedNavigator]

I do not know this for a fact- so by all means correct me, but doesnt getting a fix on your location via mobile take a considerable amount of time? Around the 5 minute mark?

I'm not trying to throw this off topic, but there seem to be a few posts that put a bit of reliance on this "tool" - when 5 minutes doesn't seem a massive amount, id imagine it is when you have an Alsatian that's preparing to rip your face off and the police are taking the 5 minutes to locate you before they even leave...

Basically trying to say, if this is the case- don't rely on it!

If it's off topic please delete...

[diehardlove]

I do not know this for a fact- so by all means correct me, but doesnt getting a fix on your location via mobile take a considerable amount of time? Around the 5 minute mark?

I'm not trying to throw this off topic, but there seem to be a few posts that put a bit of reliance on this "tool" - when 5 minutes doesn't seem a massive amount, id imagine it is when you have an Alsatian that's preparing to rip your face off and the police are taking the 5 minutes to locate you before they even leave...

Basically trying to say, if this is the case- don't rely on it!

If it's off topic please delete...

I thought the same and you had to be on the phone for that whole 5 mins to get a location.

[MonkeyDan]

Nope - your approximate location can be found almost instantly (In the UK this can usually be to within 10metres).

Your phone is constantly in touch with it's closest telephone mast (if it wasn't, you wouldn't be able to recieve calls), using more than one mast your location can be plotted. As long as your phone is switched on, you can be traced (Pay and go and contract).

The information is logged too, part of the evidence against Ian Huntley was his phone location at the time!

[Urbex_94]

This thread is the start of something great. He needs to be put in his place. Iv'e been wanting to go to this asylum for a long time and I am planning to go in the Summer. He doesn't intimidate me what-so-ever, if he hit me, i'd hit him back aha, it's the dog that's the problem. Can't wait to go there, if anyone wants to email me regarding entrance an what-ever that would be great as i know i shouldn't discuss it on here. Great Asylum, Lunatic security. PETITION!

jacksivyer94@gmail.com

[JPG]

While I agree that security like this can be the solution in some places, it clearly isn't here.

Where I work, we have alot of problems with spray paint and metal theft, at one location we have a live-in security guard similar to this and the problems have gone away totally. At the same time, anyone who turns up and wants to take photos/look around is always welcome.

At the other locations, we have normal security and the problem is getting worse and worse. Every morning we have things moved/nicked/smashed/tagged.

[Horus]

Thats not the point in this thread though

[buddah]

I have been thinking about this situation today and have had a thought, Elwyn quite clearly has some crazy ways of dealing with people which should not be tolerated, but when all said and done, Elwyn is all that Denbigh does have.

Its quite clear from all that has been written about the owner that he does not give a fu*k about Denbigh, he has ignored court orders and has let previous planning permissions lapse so there is currently no viable plan in place for the hospital.

If you remove Elwyn, you remove all form of security on the site, if he goes, do you really think that the owners will suddenly re-employ real security, board up all the doors and windows and start looking after the property - its certainly not happened for the past 16 or so years, so why would it happen now?




Although internally very unstable, the building itself is something that could possibly be preserved and something done to it, you remove Elwyn, you open up the place for all sorts of people to do what ever they like - the main hall was torched and then demolished, without Elwyn, there will be a free-for-all for this to happen again, quite possibly to the main admin section.

I am not saying assaulting people himself and with his dog is in any way acceptable, but the reality is he is the only thing Denbigh has got, you remove him and you potentially remove any hope of a future for the building.


This is the point i try'd to make the other day.

[buddah]

You think a campaign like this will put a stop to it??? How naive.
All it will do is highlight that there is an access problem and although the site is fucked it will result in the council applying pressure on the landowners to improve security, which will pretty much get the place locked down.

If you dont want to get caught.....then you best improve your fieldcraft in stealth.


correct!

[Hidden]

You think a campaign like this will put a stop to it??? How naive.
All it will do is highlight that there is an access problem and although the site is fucked it will result in the council applying pressure on the landowners to improve security, which will pretty much get the place locked down.

If you dont want to get caught.....then you best improve your fieldcraft in stealth.

What an idiot. Have you ever even been?

[SparkUK]

The only way to lock Denbigh down would be to knock the whole thing down...... I think what makes it easy to get busted inside now is that it's a pig to navigate with so many floors and staircases missing.

[Oxygen Thief]

You think a campaign like this will put a stop to it??? How naive.
All it will do is highlight that there is an access problem and although the site is fucked it will result in the council applying pressure on the landowners to improve security, which will pretty much get the place locked down.



What? And you believe that shit? Naive to the max.

And Buddah, take your negativity elsewhere.

[Cheese Monkey]

You think a campaign like this will put a stop to it??? How naive.
All it will do is highlight that there is an access problem and although the site is fucked it will result in the council applying pressure on the landowners to improve security, which will pretty much get the place locked down.

If you dont want to get caught.....then you best improve your fieldcraft in stealth.

That sounds like a proper result to me. Local skag den got decently boarded, secured and cleaned up near me last year. Persevered with access recently and ended up with a nice wander :thumb . If only everywhere had good security from the start, would save pikeys trashing the place


I've never been to Denbigh and I dont intend to soon with this lunatic roaming free. No need for violence or threatening behaviour when faced with (hopefully) polite explorers etc. I hope something gets sorted :gay

[Esposa]

You think a campaign like this will put a stop to it??? How naive.
All it will do is highlight that there is an access problem and although the site is fucked it will result in the council applying pressure on the landowners to improve security, which will pretty much get the place locked down.

If you dont want to get caught.....then you best improve your fieldcraft in stealth.

As others have said you have totally missed the point. He isn't security for a start. Secondly most of us in the urbex community know of him and his antics, even with this knowledge we're still getting attacked if he see's you anywhere near Denbigh, he doesn't just attack when your caught inside the building.

People in the area for a visit will not know this and might fancy walking upto that big grand unfenced building and end up seriously hurt. Can you honestly say it is ok to sit back and watch that happen? I'm too worried about explorers because most myself included would give him and the dog a run for their money, those tripods and torches can be fantastic self defence!

Good for you OT started a thread on the subject and tackling it, as you know I have already cross posted your first post so people know where to report and if we can do anything else to put a stop to the nutter we will do our best to help :)

[Ojay]

This is nothing new, beardy has been this way for far too long, but unless people report it then he's only going to get worse. I heard earlier a horrendous tale from last week, but it's down to that person to share it or not, not me'.

Rest assured if people do-nothing he's gonna get worse and one of you lot will end up stuck.

One thing is protecting a site legally it's another to go off the rails and assault people ffs

[Oxygen Thief]

And I'm going to hazard a guess that 99.9% of you haven't heard the very recent stories from there. Hopefully people will be along soon to explain.

[Ojay]

I'm not being funny but the majority of us could handle a situation with him, but there are 13 year olds and females etc and many a young explorer who wouldn't stand a chance, AND would almost certainly be too afraid to go to the authorities. This is a serious matter boys and girls enough of the trolling and negativity please.

[Hidden]

Of course we could all 'handle' beard...

A 20 stone alsation is another thing and him using that as a tool like he does is a problem...

[bungle666]

A 20 stone alsation is another thing and him using that as a tool like he does is a problem...

not really... just feed it a 3D maglite and it wont be biting anyone again! :D :rolleyes:

HTH

B..

[Treadstone]

I do not know this for a fact- so by all means correct me, but doesnt getting a fix on your location via mobile take a considerable amount of time? Around the 5 minute mark?

...

Mobile operators have real time location data, which they provide to the emergency services. Accuracy varies - if you are in a city where base stations are close together it will be more accurate than if you are out in the countryside where they are wide appart.
For my Scuba stuff I have to keep my first aid certificate current, and the refresher course I did a couple of years ago was taught by a london paramedic. He had a screen in his car and when calls get directed to him he could hear (but not join in with) the conversation with the control room and the display showed him a map with the location of the phone call.
I also know of a plane crash last year where the control room was getting a lot of calls, with different locations, becuse there were houses on 3 sides of the field and so 3 different streets were being quoted. One person I know who called it in was asked to walk into the field and towards the wreckage so they could decide which way the ambulance should come in.

[Ex-Pat]

Does any one know if there are any public footpaths, bridleways or public right of ways that run though Denbigh?
The reason I ask is that if there are any of the three running through there neither "Beardy" or the owners have right to stop the public from using them and therefore accessing the grounds as long as you stick to the designated path/route ;)

[Ex-Pat]

Well said bro!

Thanks!

[tumbles]

And I'm going to hazard a guess that 99.9% of you haven't heard the very recent stories from there. Hopefully people will be along soon to explain.

My very recent experience of Mr Pierce came about on the first weekend of this month. Funnily enough having bumped into Dweeb & Speed at Pool Parc prior we'd talked about him and how he acts. I remember Dweeb saying they were heading up there too, don't know if they had any experiences.

This was my second visit to Denbigh in the past 12 months, the previous solo explore was a quick hour blast as I headed home to Brizzle. We'd planned this to be a bit longer. Parking in the usual spots around the back and making our way in as not to be too obvious.

The first sign of trouble came around the back by the chapel when I noticed two men carrying shot guns in the adjacent field. I presumed they were out hunting but didn't strike me as the type. We carried on through what is now a very poor and run down site.

About hour later the girl in our party of 3 comes running towards me - she's just spotted two blokes walking past the main hall with shotguns. We sat tight for a little bit then got some externals before deciding it might be time to head off.

This is when the real trouble started. Upon heading out to the west of the site to walk back up to the chapel the two chaps with guns clocked us but didn't say anything. Within 2 minutes of walking through corridors to get out the enviable sound of a van arrived. We probably did the worst thing which was to stop and figure out which way to go. We picked the wrong way and Mr Pierce and the biggest dog I've seen in some time are racing down at us.

We didn't want any trouble, we just wanted to leave. Mr Pierce was having none of it though. Straight away his tone of voice wasn't pleasant and after asking us 'what we were doing' he turned to me and attempted to smash my camera up against the corridor wall. We agreed to leave hoping that would be it but as we walked he seemed intent on picking a fight with us. Not content with saying how we should be locked up he then proceeded to let his dog off his leash and he bit me right in the arse!

Thankfully it didn't pierce the skin (no pun intended) but it bloody hurt as you can imagine. This wasn't it, not content with this he then proceeded to push two of us into one of the 'fake' padded cells that most haunted live created and demanded that we delete our pictures and seemed to want to hold us in this cell. At this point I had enough and proceeded to attempt to call the police (fail, no signal) but this was enough for him to back off and let us go.

He then set the dog on the girl in our party, who'd not said a word to him. The dog nearly pushed her flat to the floor and can't of been far off biting her on the head.

We left expecting him to stalk us in his van which he has done so many times in the past but we didn't see him again.

The biggest mistake I probably made thereafter was not calling the police right there and then. Possibly because I couldn't quite believe what had just happened. When I did get around to ringing the offices 3 days later what I go was an unfriendly approach of 'well you shouldn't be there' - to which I then asked for information on their complaints procedure and the tone suddenly changed. It was just about the best they could do to take my story and details. Since then I've heard nothing.

I believe we have a little bit of video footage which more captures the tone of Mr Pierces voice and actions than what he did visibly. You can imagine how he'd react with a camera shoved in his face.

I did look into trying to find the owners of the buildings but it quite a headache to say the least. I ended up going down many a dead end to say the least. Having done extensive work into the Mid Wales scandal I can safely say Denbigh and its owners are equally elusive to say the least. I do know that Graham Frecknall Architecture & Design were given the go ahead to start drawing up master plans for the conversion in January of last year. I had dialogue with a gentleman who works there over pictures of Pen Y Fal in Abergavenny which they also converted. I have since asked who are the owners are with a stone cold silence since.

My biggest fear is one day Mr Pierce might come a cropper against the wrong type of character and get hurt himself. I'd rather see nobody get hurt - regardless of what's happened previously. The question is, will it take something serious to happen before something is finally done about him? I think this is a great way to start trying to make it happen.

Over & Out. Peace.

[Hidden]

Wow, well that just changed things a little. Sorry to hear of what happened, something definitely needs to be done about this guy now.

[True_British_Metal]

Elwyn is FINISHED. If what tumbles says is true, he is finished.

Get that footage up for everyone to see!

[SyndicCells]

This bearded guy sounds out of line and violence (or the threat thereof) is fully illegal. If he's been out of line report him to the police, end of.

If he has made you delete photos off your camera then you can recover them, if you do so immediately.

http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/PhotoRec

In essence deleting a photo only marks the space that the memory card had stored that photo on as free to overwrite. If you haven't taken photos since deleting then they can usually be recovered.

Thought it might be useful if you've photographed 'the beard' and he's made you delete any evidence that might be useful in gaining a conviction.

[tumbles]

I have no reason to lie. I could have remained quiet on here about it but felt compelled to share after Chris's stance. It's time to help put a stop to this once and for all before anyone else, including Elwyn, gets hurt.

I have yet too obtain a copy of the video - bit of a hectic month for me on the road. I will however send it on to PC Davies at the Denbigh police office when I do.

[True_British_Metal]

I'd recommend you send it onto someone who we can say has dealt with Elwyn after being called out.

[tumbles]

PC Davies is well aware of Mr Pierce :)

[rookinella]

I've been to Denbigh four times and have never run into this guy. What are people doing to get caught here? I thought part of the practice of going to these places was not getting seen?

I know sometimes it's unavoidable but why hang around to antagonise the guy? Run away and get out of there. :crazy

[Ojay]

Elwyn is FINISHED. If what tumbles says is true, he is finished.

Get that footage up for everyone to see!

You and Xan still need to follow them complaints up :thumb

[Ojay]

I've been to Denbigh four times and have never run into this guy. What are people doing to get caught here? I thought part of the practice of going to these places was not getting seen?

I know sometimes it's unavoidable but why hang around to antagonise the guy? Run away and get out of there. :crazy

You don't count with your invisible cloak :p :D

[True_British_Metal]

You and Xan still need to follow them complaints up :thumb

Claire already processed and allegedly dealt with my complaint. What I can do is call her and invite Xan into the conversation to discuss.

I know you can do this on an Iphone but can you do it on a Blackberry 8520?

[Ojay]

I know you can do this on an Iphone but can you do it on a Blackberry 8520?

I'm sure you can but I don't have a Blackberry, someone on here will have the answer for you I'm sure :)

[True_British_Metal]

Oh and Rooks, you can't run away from Elwyn with that big fuck he has! Look at what I did!

[Urbex-Warrior]

This threads been posted on the restoration facebook page now....

Jeeze tumbles atleast your ok mate.

[DubbedNavigator]

That post from tumbles is shocking, if that doesnt perk the old bills interest - theres something wrong in this world


I've been to Denbigh four times and have never run into this guy. What are people doing to get caught here? I thought part of the practice of going to these places was not getting seen?

I know sometimes it's unavoidable but why hang around to antagonise the guy? Run away and get out of there. :crazy

Some people obviously just arent elite enough are they...

[mookster]

Some people obviously just arent elite enough are they...

Seems like most people visiting Denbigh at the moment then!

Problem is he obviously knows the site way better than anybody else so knows where people will go or run to if seen and can head them off, as has happened to people.

[Thestig]

On a neighbouring forum (which i will not say the name) they started a similar thread just like this, BUT the outcome is that beardy is doing a great job and should carry on and the thread has ended up in the bin :eek:

[Hidden]

On a neighbouring forum (which i will not say the name) they started a similar thread just like this, BUT the outcome is that beardy is doing a great job and should carry on and the thread has ended up in the bin :eek:

Ive just seen that... :confused

[diehardlove]

Went today walked around all day with demo blokes in hi-viz all over then stood out the front of the building to take externals and was greeted by a twat in a suit video to follow if adders gets it up pmsl.

[Hidden]

Went today walked around all day with demo blokes in hi-viz all over then stood out the front of the building to take externals and was greeted by a twat in a suit video to follow if adders gets it up pmsl.

Definitely demo guys?

[diehardlove]

Definitely demo guys?

Yep had demo on the side and a decon unit being dragged probably doing asbestos removal.Im not at home so cant get pics up but bet the lads will.

[tumbles]

Yep had demo on the side and a decon unit being dragged probably doing asbestos removal.Im not at home so cant get pics up but bet the lads will.

Side of building or hats?

It maybe the council have stepped into do the compulsory work orders on the listed parts.

Either way its good something is happening to the buildings. They can't stay like that much longer.

[diehardlove]

Side of building or hats?

It maybe the council have stepped into do the compulsory work orders on the listed parts.

Either way its good something is happening to the buildings. They can't stay like that much longer.

Nah the side of 2 vans and i decon trailer and on there hi-viz fucked if we could get beardy to come play.

[Gh0sT]

Because he's a f,kin coward DHL.
Too many witnesses about probably.

[Horus]

Nah the side of 2 vans and i decon trailer and on there hi-viz fucked if we could get beardy to come play.

Topical, when you want him to come play he doesn't ha

[vwdirtboy]

Topical, when you want him to come play he doesn't ha


We were a little disappointed but there's always next time.

The company there was Wyevale demolition and they were attempting some Asbestos removal at the main door in admin.

I'll get some pics up tomorrow when I get my camera from the car.

[rookinella]

Some people obviously just arent elite enough are they...

Clearly. Minus 10 Zelda points, you do not win the magic sword :crazy

[neil9443]

This bloke lives round the corner from me his Name is [REMOVED - TRY ACTUALLY READING THIS THREAD :banghead] I thought this information would be useful to post on the page so that he can be reported...

[styru]

This bloke lives round the corner from me his Name is [REMOVED - TRY ACTUALLY READING THIS THREAD :banghead] I thought this information would be useful to post on the page so that he can be reported...


FFS - if you actually had bothered to read this thread you would see that his name and address has already been posted - and removed for good reason!! - please do NOT repost his name/address mate :(

[Esposa]

This bloke lives round the corner from me his Name is [REMOVED - TRY ACTUALLY READING THIS THREAD :banghead] I thought this information would be useful to post on the page so that he can be reported...

If he lives around the corner from you can you tell us what locals are doing to about him? Are they concerned he might hurt somebody or himself with his actions?

[True_British_Metal]

Even better, could you tell us who the gunmen are?

[SparkUK]

Have there been any 'gunmen' incidents? Other than the fact that someone seems to have permission to shoot vermin on site?

[Oxygen Thief]

Have there been any 'gunmen' incidents? Other than the fact that someone seems to have permission to shoot vermin on site?

Yes there has. I don't know who it was yet though.

[SparkUK]

Yes there has. I don't know who it was yet though.


Fair enough, all I've seen about that so far is a bit of scaremongering.

[Thestig]

Have there been any 'gunmen' incidents? Other than the fact that someone seems to have permission to shoot vermin on site?

We was escorted off the site by "rambo" (our name for the gunman), whilst we was coming out we heard a "HOY" from him as we was leaving, then next we heard the riffle being armed as we was walking away, hence we didnt stay for a chat to exchange phone numbers

[Horus]

then next we heard the riffle being armed

Id of classed that of being threatened

[kevsy21]

We was escorted off the site by "rambo" (our name for the gunman), whilst we was coming out we heard a "HOY" from him as we was leaving, then next we heard the riffle being armed as we was walking away, hence we didnt stay for a chat to exchange phone numbers

Thats a real serious offence,the idiot gunman should be brought to justice for that.

[KongZi]

He wasn't very friendly when we saw him a month ago, however, he didn't attack us or set his dog on us, he just told us we we're coming in and we had to get off the land. We then played hide and seek for an hour, while other explorer types snuck in while he was being kept busy by us ;)

[Thestig]

Id of classed that of being threatened

Might be but i wasnt going to stay around to find out lol, just wanted to get away as fast as fook

Planing a return trip really soon, i might get more the one corridor done lol

[Treadstone]

Might be but i wasnt going to stay around to find out lol, just wanted to get away as fast as fook

Planing a return trip really soon, i might get more the one corridor done lol

Look, no one is saying you should stick around to have a gun pointed at you, but if you are being threatend with a firearm, you need to call the police as soon as it's safe to. I wouldn't piss about: if someone got shot later I wouldn't want it on my conscience ... (predicting what your conscience would do in a hypothetical situation is for you, not me :-) )

[Oxygen Thief]

and imagine the photo opportunity as the armed police swoop in...

[SparkUK]

and imagine the photo opportunity as the armed police swoop in...


Sounds like a plan.... anyone free this avvy? :)

[RunToEarth]

Whilst I in no way agree with his agressive behaviour, perhaps you should bear in mind the cost of proper security, the cost of maintenance that can occur with a vacant building, and the cost of liability claims when some miscreant falls through the floor.
Granted, he hasn't done the best job so far of keeping the right people out, but liability claims are nasty, and long winded, and very expensive on the owners side, it's painful.

[Xan_Asmodi]

Whilst I in no way agree with his agressive behaviour, perhaps you should bear in mind the cost of proper security, the cost of maintenance that can occur with a vacant building, and the cost of liability claims when some miscreant falls through the floor.
Granted, he hasn't done the best job so far of keeping the right people out, but liability claims are nasty, and long winded, and very expensive on the owners side, it's painful.

Getting bitten by a dog is painful. Having your equipment smashed is painful. Being worried about some Rambo wanna be shooting you is painful. We have no problem with security, but it has to be done properly.

Fuck the liability shit, that's no excuse for heavy handedness and plain thuggery. :mad:

[catbalou]

Getting bitten by a dog is painful. Having your equipment smashed is painful. Being worried about some Rambo wanna be shooting you is painful. We have no problem with security, but it has to be done properly.

Fuck the liability shit, that's no excuse for heavy handedness and plain thuggery. :mad:

Well said.

with regards to Runtoearths comment on "the cost of liability claims when some miscreant falls through the floor"
I would like to point out that we explore these places at our own risk and I think the vast majority would not put in a 'liability claim' if injured whilst exploring...
I am looking forward to my Denbigh visit... should be very interesting indeed.

[diehardlove]

Whilst I in no way agree with his agressive behaviour, perhaps you should bear in mind the cost of proper security, the cost of maintenance that can occur with a vacant building, and the cost of liability claims when some miscreant falls through the floor.
Granted, he hasn't done the best job so far of keeping the right people out, but liability claims are nasty, and long winded, and very expensive on the owners side, it's painful.

WTF !!!!!!!
have you not read this thread none of that is any excuse for violence.

[SparkUK]

You'll love it LOL, to be fair I don't think it's so hard to avoid being caught there, I think a lot of people just think 'oh it's only Denbigh' and then just walk about in full view and get busted.

[Horus]

I must of been lucky, I walked about like I owned the place and never seen the guy, he must of been shopping

[catbalou]

I must of been lucky, I walked about like I owned the place and never seen the guy, he must of been shopping

Yes, but you're the 'all seeing eye' though... its alright for you... you can sense him coming. The rest of us just have to take our chances.
:D

[Xan_Asmodi]

The rest of us just have to take our chances.
:D

LoL! As anyone who has met me can attest; I'm not the most inconspicuous of characters! :D

[catbalou]

LoL! As anyone who has met me can attest; I'm not the most inconspicuous of characters! :D

haha! well Im going down for a visit sometime, and the 'sensible' part of me (which is not a very big part) says to be ultra cautious and the other part really wants to go down in a mass costume extravaganza to see his reaction :D
Hopefully the 'sensible' part will prevail... i dont want to get attacked .. or bitten .. or shot (!) in the process of visiting.. : /
:)

[RunToEarth]

Well said.

with regards to Runtoearths comment on "the cost of liability claims when some miscreant falls through the floor"
I would like to point out that we explore these places at our own risk and I think the vast majority would not put in a 'liability claim' if injured whilst exploring...
I am looking forward to my Denbigh visit... should be very interesting indeed.

Sorry I wasn't meaning to get peoples' backs up about it- obviously I completely understand that the way the owners have gone about security is completely wrong and unjustified, I was just trying to see things from the owners' point of view.
Evidently what it more frustrating than anything else is the fact that urbex intentions are misunderstood for miscreants who WILL file liability claims (we are going through a stunner atm) where the plain fact is (I am assuming) not one of the members on these forums would a) claim liability for an accident on a site b)deface or set fire to a site or c) steal materials from a site- it is just a huge shame that most owners and security do not have the depth to understand the two different camps of tresspassers.

[Oxygen Thief]

You're right, nobody would claim against a landowner, but I'd take that bastard to the cleaners. It's almost worth being bitten, to shaft an unregulated, unlicensed, thuggish moron (who owns his own house as financial security FTW)

[OneLife]

Re beardy throwing you in a padded cell, I suggest you persue the offence of Kidnapping - False imprisonment, and persue it in a civil court for compensation also.


Id of classed that of being threatened


In terms of gun law, I wouldnt say that was a threat. He could have emptied the guns chamber as soon as he knew people were nearby and then re-armed it after escorting them from site.

Im not aiming to defend anyone who breaks the firearms laws. I am a shooter myself and hate it when people give us a bad rep. If someone has been threatened, and by that I mean an actual threat i.e. he pointed the gun at you, armed it or removed safety while telling you to leave, or even said something threatening that he would do with the gun, then they should report that to the police. As with beardy, get any evidence you can. Offenses involving firearms are extremely serious and the police no longer take them lightly, even if it turns out to be an air rifle. For this sort of offence a decent prison term plus a lifetime ban on the possesion of any firearm or air weapon is not unheard of. ( the lifetime ban is automatic after a 3+ year sentence).

Some possibly relevant firearms offences for you to consider:


Section 16: Possesion with intent to endanger life - very unlikely, unless of course he tries to shoot you it would be hard to prove.

Section 16a: Possesion with intent to cause fear - if someone with a gun or rifle was to threaten you, unfortunately highly unlikely to result in a conviction without evidence. Up to 10 years in prison for this one.

Section 19: Possesion in a public place - If there is any public footpaths and these guys use them, you could report them and leave it down to them to prove their lawful reason to be where they are. Bit of a twat this one as the armed police bear down on you as your trying to tell them you have permission to be there. If they have already been reported this may have already of been covered. Also same as section 20 below:

Section 20: Armed Tresspass: only counts if these guys have no permission to be on the land. Without the backing of the landowner impossible.

All in all, if you are threatened, fair one report it and hopefully these guys will get screwed. without a threat there is very little chance that these guys have even done anything wrong.

[dweeb]

I dont get his problem...

The land owners have pretty much washed their hands of the place from what I have read. Their planning aplication is now out of date and the council are going to survey the place soon and hand the repair bill to them. In the whole time I have been exploring it's always been WIDE open, no boarding, no fences. He has not stopped one of the most notable buildings burning down, every ounce of lead and copper being taken, why is he fussed if a couple of people wander around and take some photos?!

[tumbles]

I dont get his problem...

The land owners have pretty much washed their hands of the place from what I have read. Their planning aplication is now out of date and the council are going to survey the place soon and hand the repair bill to them. In the whole time I have been exploring it's always been WIDE open, no boarding, no fences. He has not stopped one of the most notable buildings burning down, every ounce of lead and copper being taken, why is he fussed if a couple of people wander around and take some photos?!

Is it his anger at seeing a place he worked and maintained for many years fall into disrepair? Like you mention, he wasn't able to prevent the hall being torched nor was he able to stop the theft of pretty much every valuable asset the building had left... including the clock mech & faces!

I believe the council are now stepping up the pressure to get something sorted out. Compulsory repair orders is the first thing they need to do.

[True_British_Metal]

Fantastic post Dweeb. Agree with every word of that.

[Xan_Asmodi]

I dont get his problem...

The land owners have pretty much washed their hands of the place from what I have read. Their planning aplication is now out of date and the council are going to survey the place soon and hand the repair bill to them. In the whole time I have been exploring it's always been WIDE open, no boarding, no fences. He has not stopped one of the most notable buildings burning down, every ounce of lead and copper being taken, why is he fussed if a couple of people wander around and take some photos?!

If what is being said here about him doing tours is true, then we're "getting it for free". But I think it's neigh on impossible to get a handle on someone from such fleeting encounters.

He just needs to be stopped.

[True_British_Metal]

...so we need to get a time when you, Tumbles and I are available so we can talk to the police station!

[tumbles]

Sorry having a hectic week away from work, should be back home again soon. I have already spoken to them once..

[True_British_Metal]

...and what was the response? Surely it won't be YOUR word against HIS -firstly you've got WITNESSES and you've got other people who have been threatened too, like ME.

[NursePayne]

Haha That 1st shot is nice. What a ripe character.

[keffa]

I dont get his problem...

The land owners have pretty much washed their hands of the place from what I have read. Their planning aplication is now out of date and the council are going to survey the place soon and hand the repair bill to them. In the whole time I have been exploring it's always been WIDE open, no boarding, no fences. He has not stopped one of the most notable buildings burning down, every ounce of lead and copper being taken, why is he fussed if a couple of people wander around and take some photos?!

Allow me to enlighten you.

His problem has nothing to do with being bothered about people trespassing on the grounds. His problem is that he is a power control freak and this is how he exerts it. He feels that the building is somehow "his" and uses it as a catalyst to massage his issues with people he perceives will not represent a significant threat to him. I.e. explorers. Further evidence of this comes from the stories from 2 folks I know (Whom I note are all burly males. This is not a coincidence.) who say he has been non antagonistic and even civil to them or just plain ignored them.

Now consider that the average lead/copper thief and arsonist probably wouldn't have too much compulsion about making him swallow those rather significant teeth of his if he tried to stop them and it probably makes sense that he doesn't bother them too much.

Unfortunately for him he works under the assumption that the argument of "It's your word against his" has protected him so far, but I suspect one day in the future he is probably going to have an encounter with someone who appreciates the fact that argument works both ways.

[catbalou]

but I suspect one day in the future he is probably going to have an encounter with someone who appreciates the fact that argument works both ways.

I am looking forward to my trip there in the forseeable.
Although I am not going 'looking for trouble', I am merely going to tick this off my list of lovely places to visit in my 'mini tour' of asylums... I will certainly report back with any information.
If I do bump into him it should be an interesting day... ;)

[One Flew East]

Question: OT have you had an encounter with this guy?

[Oxygen Thief]

Quick answer: No.

[SparkUK]

I couldn't be bothered re-trawling through all of this thread to see if it had already been posted but this newspaper report refers to him as 'keyholder'

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2009/05/09/spook-hunters-damage-denbigh-hospital-site-55578-23581016/

[catbalou]

Met this character recently.. and his ol shep.

Was actually really riled by the reports of his attacks on explorers, and also annoyed at the state of Denbigh, so I was basically in no mood for his attitude and since I'd had a lack of sleep after driving through the night and sleeping in the car.. I decided to have an attitude of my own.

Immature? Probably.. Do I care? couldnt give a s**t, to be honest.

The situation was that I was taking photos round the front and his white van appeared... beeped his horn constantly, then screeched to a halt right next to me.
The conversation between him and myself and a friend of mine went like this: -
Mr P: What do you think your doing? get out.
Me: Hi there... taking a look at this building and taking photos.
Mr P: Its private property, and you will leave now
Me: So who owns this building then?
Mr P: Im not going to answer that. Its private. You are not allowed to be here, how did you get in?
Friend: Can I ask what your doing here?
Mr P: Im looking after the place.
Me: Well, you havent flaming well done a very good job have you? Its bloody well trashed in there. Its an absolute disgrace.
Friend: There's not much left to look after in there, mate.
Mr P: Right Im ringing the police.. Do you want me to ring the police?
Me: Well ring them. Im pretty sure they're getting sick of a daft prat dragging them up here everytime someone takes a sodding photograph.
Mr P: Ive got my dog in the van. Im getting my dog.
Friend: well get him then.

At this point he walked towards his van, and got the alsatian out while I took a close-up of the main door.

Mr P: DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND ENGLISH?
Me: Yep, but thought I was in Wales actually...

*Cue a barrage of some probable undesirable insults in welsh.*
Me: yeah, same to you mate.

Walked out the main gate, and down the lane. He watched, shouted..folllowed a bit, then stayed hovering about, so I walked up the side public footpath and got back in again to take some photos of the plant at the back, and the 'chapel'.

Ok, so probably immature, but I was gobsmacked at how awful the place looks inside.. and how it has been left to rot.. It was NOT very nice to see at all, considering how lovely it must have once looked.. and I was quite annoyed at that.

Cat.

[diehardlove]

haha nice one cat you tell him.

[randomnut]

Good work cat.

btw here's something referring to him as Gwiylm Elwyn Pierce the 'keyholder' whilst the knobber was meeting prince charles:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/northeast/sites/denbigh_town/pages/prince_charles.shtml?6

[DubbedNavigator]

Thats exactly what he needs - well done

[DubbedNavigator]

Good work cat.

btw here's something referring to him as Gwiylm Elwyn Pierce the 'keyholder' whilst the knobber was meeting prince charles:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/northeast/sites/denbigh_town/pages/prince_charles.shtml?6

"Prince charles was given a tour of the hospital building"

Not much i bet....

Probably why Mr.P thinks he is so important too

[the invisableman]

Brilliant stuff cat!

Kitty got claws! :D

[catbalou]

Good work cat.

btw here's something referring to him as Gwiylm Elwyn Pierce the 'keyholder' whilst the knobber was meeting prince charles:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/northeast/sites/denbigh_town/pages/prince_charles.shtml?6


"Keyholder"... what an effing laugh. Theres no doors to put bloody keys in.
Drove past his house the night before and was sorely tempted to let the sods tyres down.
Im surprised he still finds 'pride' in saying he's "looking after the place".. he's an absolute disgrace.

and a complete nob.

[catbalou]

Brilliant stuff cat!

Kitty got claws! :D

Lol..! Cheers :D

Spent the night bloody freezing in a car in a field and was in no mood to be honest for any crap.

[mookster]

Mr P: DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND ENGLISH?
Me: Yep, but thought I was in Wales actually...


Brilliant:D

[True_British_Metal]

Cat, you are officially super awesome! :D

[SarahSaw]

Yep. Good work Cat :thumb

[dweeb]

The best was in 2005 when we got caught and he asked us to write our names down on a pad and Turk said "no" and snapped his biro!

Perhaps the root of his anger?!

[True_British_Metal]

LOL you got off easily!

[Landie_Man]

I'd have asked where the sheep was when he said he had a dog in the back!

[Landie_Man]

I didnt go there because I didn't wanna get involved with the mrs there, kinda tempted to go now

[True_British_Metal]

Landie, given that Zoe is blind in one eye I really would NOT recommend you try Denbigh - even floors that look solid are dangerous.

[Landie_Man]

That was my second worry

[nickweb]

Landie, given that Zoe is blind in one eye I really would NOT recommend you try Denbigh - even floors that look solid are dangerous.

I have very very limited vision in my left eye - its completely useless, and I would say you can do Denbigh with one eye with caution.

[Konseal]

Im looking to be visiting denbigh soon and will report this guy thanks for info Oxygen Thief

[Konseal]

I was ringing the police. The person in the control room wasn't cooperative at all. He made the point about me trespassing in the first place, as if that excused it, and said "well he didn't loose the dog, did he?" He seemed very reluctant to take the report off me, almost trying to dissuade me from making the complaint. I said I'd consult a lawyer and then see my position You should take the persons name you were speaking to, people usually shit and become a lot more helpful once the lose their anonymity, free of getting screwed for not doing their job me thinks. Annoying :banghead

[rigsby]

Well surprise surprise Beardy and Rambo have been at it again holding peope at gun point and intimidating people with his alsation.
Sounds like the police are not interested so maybe it's time for some vigilante action.

[True_British_Metal]

What the hell has happened now?! :eek:

[mookster]

Well surprise surprise Beardy and Rambo have been at it again holding peope at gun point and intimidating people with his alsation.
Sounds like the police are not interested so maybe it's time for some vigilante action.

:eek:

If the police aren't interested it makes me think either beardy or rambo has some sort of 'connection' with them.

I could be going to Denbigh soon with a few others on here, and I think it's fair to say if we get any funny business off him a) it'll be recorded in it's entireity and b) none of us will take any shit.

[Oxygen Thief]

I wonder how fast the police would attend if you said... "I've just been assaulted by a man with a shotgun. I've disarmed him and due to the fact I don't know if he has more weapons, I am holding him at gunpoint until you arrive. Due to the immediate threat to myself and others, I had to hurt him physically to disarm and subdue him. And by the way officer, it's all being filmed, so please make your response appropriate and accurate."

[True_British_Metal]

Ha! That's risky but not too bad actually!

What someone needs to do but hasn't is instead of snapping photos of Beardy actually record the incident ALL THE WAY THROUGH on either a voice recorder or even better a video. I.e. you say to the fucker: "don't think about setting your dog on me or even touching me 'cause it'll all be on tape." Same applies to Rambo pointing his gun at someone.

Are the police even aware of the sections he's in violation of when it comes to guarding the site i.e. lack of licence? I brought this up during the testimony but again nothing has been done.

[Bone]

I wonder how fast the police would attend if you said... "I've just been assaulted by a man with a shotgun. I've disarmed him and due to the fact I don't know if he has more weapons, I am holding him at gunpoint until you arrive. Due to the immediate threat to myself and others, I had to hurt him physically to disarm and subdue him. And by the way officer, it's all being filmed, so please make your response appropriate and accurate."

Film him pointing a shotgun.

Then perhaps a private prosecution, I doubt he or beardy would counter prosecute for civil trespass?

Interestingly, in the comic 'The Sun' today, council destroyed someone's dog two hours after it escaped from their house after it was burgled. Something to do with dangerous dogs act and the fact it was reported as attacking someone, not proved just reported.

So, how would this apply at Denbeigh, a dangerous dog is a dangerous dog, regardless of where it is? If you get bitten doing something illegal it's a separate crime than the one being committed. Hit someone on the peanut robbing your house and you go to the cells....................

[Landie_Man]

He sounds like a complete and utter nutter old Elwyn. Ive always suggested a concealed camera, I did months ago, before Elwyn was this much of a nutter! How often does he come into the buildings?

[catbalou]

How often does he come into the buildings?

he's probably there every day.. he was there, left and came back 3 times in the space of one morning I was there.
The guy must have no life other than Denbigh.

Drove passed his house the night before and thought of sleeping in his van so's we could get a lift....
At least if he shouted 'youre trespassing.. how'd you get in?" we could have said, "well you bloody well brought us here.."
:D

[Landie_Man]

LOL! thatd have been brill. No What I meant was, does he go inside very often?

[True_British_Metal]

Cat you seriously are a legend!

I'm surprised he actually goes in considering how dangerous the place is!

[catbalou]

LOL! thatd have been brill. No What I meant was, does he go inside very often?

he didnt go inside when I was there. He just drives around the road.

the second time we saw him was round the back when he was walking next to the green metal (old security cabins?) things. We were sitting on the fence that time though, so he couldnt do much apart from growl and bark menacingly... his dog wasnt that much better mannered either.

[True_British_Metal]

Those green cabins were originally for the contractors when Erdigg Ward (the secure unit) opposite the chapel was demolished.

[catbalou]

Those green cabins were originally for the contractors when Erdigg Ward (the secure unit) opposite the chapel was demolished.


Ah, right... well he was wandering next to those cabins and up to the chapel, then back again when he spotted us sitting on the fence having a cig.
Never saw him go into any of the buildings to be honest, but then i was only there for one morning.
Everytime he came back I popped up somewhere.. I think I seriously pissed that guy off that morning.

[SparkUK]

Yeah he does seem to be getting worse not better.... are there 30 or 40 of you at a loose end one day this weekend at all? :)

[Bone]

Yeah he does seem to be getting worse not better.... are there 30 or 40 of you at a loose end one day this weekend at all? :)

We were thinking about a fancy dress mega bust :cool: