SRT / Ascending / Descending

[root]

you nicked all my works!
Of course for UE or what ever you want to call it there is SRT-Lite(tm)

Instead of a harness use tape.
Instead of a STOP descender use Italian hitch.
Instead of jammers use prussic loops or trib-block I think its called.
You could keep the stop and loose the croll and use the stop as your chest ascender, does mean you have to pull UP on the rope as you stand up.

 

[Vivo]

The Speleo Vertical DVD helped me massively when I was learning about SRT.

TBH though, I haven't done much caving, most of the time I need to ascend the rope above ground, whilst wearing a climbing harness. One of the things you CAN'T do with a stop though is abseil down a double rope, which can be done with a figure of eight or a belay device.

As for ascending dynamic rope, sheer comedy is to be had (and sore bums )

 

[Rookinella]

String? Yeah but I added pikturrres and you said I could

 

[Brick_Man]

As for ascending dynamic rope, sheer comedy is to be had (and sore bums )

LOL, esp when trying to get off the ground and getting thrown everywhere thru a greet puddle of mud LOL.
good point on the double rope prob.

roots storey sounds like it has a LOT of friction in it! LOL

 

[root]

The STOP is only rated for 2m/sec, even with the handle fully depressed (as it should be) decending the stop heats up quickly, its one of its problems it doesnt get rid of heat quickly enough, this is were the rack scores.

Double rope, why, simply rig a pull though and abb down the correct side on your stop

Thread your rope though your anchors, put in a figure 8 on one side, click a krab in the figure8 and click onto the rope on the other side of the anchors. now pulling on one side tightens the rope onto the anchors, drop down on this side. Pulling on the otherside pulls the rope down after you. DONT ab down this side, hehehe. It would be faster!

I added more SRT FAQs - http://www.darkplaces.co.uk/Wikka/SRTFAQ

 

[Brick_Man]

yeah pull thrus sound fun!

from what I've heard and seen of a stop, seems to do the job well, but absuing them = some serious probs, wheras its pretty hard to abuse a simple or a rack to the point of causing an accident. that said, racks scare me.


oh yeah, anybody got any info on the latchladder/latchsystem wire access things you get on antenna and proper tall stuff? got a pair of devices for use on them coming soon, just so I've got them if theres a lartch latch wire system in place.

 

[Vivo]

Within climbing, although obviously not caving, there is sometimes a need to employ twin or double ropes. In situations like this, a Stop would be totally useless if you should need to abseil down. All I'm saying is, figure of eights and belay plates definitely have their uses.

 

[Oxygen Thief]

Funnily enough most people who get into SRT seem to like SRT for the sake of it and make a sport out of it.

...and I would tend to agree with that. It's something I really want to get into more, as well as climbing and bouldering. I've just ordered a basic set of kit, that I haven't really got anything planned for except for practice.

However Userscotts got a point, SRT is massively used in industry and caving. But that's SRT as a means to an end, not just for the sake of it.

As for the quality of the kit... surely it all has to meet a certain minimum standard as defined by British Standards?

 

[root]

General Tosser is wrong on some accounts but correct in one.

The kit isn't perfect but kit failure is very very rare. Its normally the human that's failed in some way which is why I am always preaching about TRAINING! and why doing it for fun when maybe you dont strictly need it is simply good practice, its a skill that needs to be practised.

Common SRT incidents include; Abbing off the end of the rope, getting hair stuck in the descender, getting stuck on badly rigged pitch heads, being knackered, kit being accidental de-rigged!!! Is more common then kit failure.
http://www.cro.org.uk/statistics

Big pitches can become slow causing a long wait for people below. However better rigging using re-belays means multiple pitches, so you can get more people on the rope. Its best to do these types of trips in small groups.

 

[BenCooper]

Same deal with climbing kit - kit failure is so rare it's basically unknown, it's human failure that causes accidents. Often when tired - the most dangerous part of any climb is the ab back down - the number of people who've abseiled off the end of their rope isn't funny.

 

[General Tosser]

This is absolute bullshit.

In caving, it's literally impossible to get anywhere without SRT, thats why it was invented and thats exactly what it was invented for. None of it is poorly made crap, what the hell are you going on about?

Your comments remind me of when another lad described it as "PPE gone sporty" ... And what do you mean it takes 20 minutes a pitch? It takes 3 minutes to do 20 meters, the average pitch is 10, which means 1.5 minutes to ascend.

Do not comment unless you have any idea what you are talking about, saying that about something that is used day in, day out, all around the world by every caver and rope access technician is simply unreal.

Re-read your own comments, inwardly digest and have a rethink.
Enjoy your caving and mind you don't fall off the end of your rope:)
In the meantime don't expect anyone to bother discussing anything with you with an attitude like that.

 

[General Tosser]

However Userscotts got a point, SRT is massively used in industry and caving. But that's SRT as a means to an end, not just for the sake of it.

As for the quality of the kit... surely it all has to meet a certain minimum standard as defined by British Standards?

Commercial rope access is a mean to an end, it also involves a fairly rigorous training regime and kit is also maintained/retired much more regularly than liesure users.
Commercial gear is simply retired long before the point it gets worn or if it is damaged. The same is less likely to happen with private user kit.
As for quality/design of kit that is largely a matter of opinion. A Petl Stop is a prime example, when used as per the instructions it works exactly as it says on the box, personally I think it major failing is that it is perfectly possible to step off into the void with the thing rigged the wrong way round. to my mind thats not ideal in a piece of kit largely used in the dark , thats where Root's point about training comes in. It would be a far better design if it wasn't possible to rig it wrongly in the 1st place.
A case of design making operator error to easy I suppose.
As for long pitches, they aren't the end of the world but they are a factor. Contrary to some beliefs the average pich time would not be a 90 second ascent.

 

[Vivo]

A Petzl I'D is available for people silly enough to thread things wrong I believe. Also, you shouldn't be unclipping your cowstails until you've tested the Stop, that's partly what they are there for. If you follow standard practice you can't do it wrong really. Of course some idiot can go out and buy all the kit, not bother getting shown how to use it, or even read the instructions, do it how he THINKS he should do it, and die.

However, as with all potentially dangerous activities, you should seek proper training and practise until you are confident before deciding to take on the 'real thing'. I wasn't fotunate enough to know proper cavers when I was interested in learning SRT so instead relied on friends who are IRATA technicians and guys who work in my local climbing/caving shop to show me and give me pointers, and dvds to learn some of the other stuff we couldn't cover. I practised all above ground, starting with ascents of just 3m.

 

[Brick_Man]

not quite sure which piece of srt kit it is that general tosser thinks is poorly made? surely you mean poorly laid out, e.g. possible to thread backwards, possible to use incorrectly?
actually made badly means it falls apart and isn't suitable for purpose?
poorly laid out means if you know how to use it your ok, if your an idiot, well, you get what you deserve really. although I admit (speaking as a very very uber noob novice here) that accidents and occurances where you just don't think things thru DO happen, and probably are hte main cause of deaths and injury rather than kit failure.

root those stats make for grim reading.
I mean 7 lambs, and 4 sheep for funks sake!

A lamb was successfully rescued from a narrow ledge near the top of the quarry.

they bother waisting their time for a £10 bloody lamb! ffs

 

[Dark Prince]

I have no problem with descending a rope, gimme a Fig 8 descender (yeah yeah i know that they are crap etc) and off i go. But whats with this lets go back up the rope lark then....jesus wont be doing that again.

Only done it once, had no choice it was the only way out, and have to say i hated every minute of it. I have never been so happy to get to a soggy, wet cold welsh mountainside!!.

In caving, it's literally impossible to get anywhere without SRT

i've done several caves where no SRT was needed at all.

It takes 3 minutes to do 20 meters, the average pitch is 10, which means 1.5 minutes to ascend.

I'm assuming that these times are for someone who is compotent at SRT. It took me 20 mins to do 20 metres.

I would only use SRT if the trip was a once in a lifetime, never see it again ever type trip.

DP