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SRT / Ascending / Descending


jonks

28DL Full Member
28DL Full Member
Err - how fast were you thinking of climbing??
Not all types of slings will be suitable for using in prussiking. Hope you practice in a tree before going for a big one!
The slings I have are suitable, and its not a question of speed... I have heard stories of people using 5/6mm cord for prussiks, and hanging on it for a long period of time in hot weather, and finding it fused.
 
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lilla

Guest
Guest
So a lot of people on here will know me from the past climbing up cranes and buildings willy-nilly without protection a few years back then I took a hiatus from here whilst I got distracted by A LOT of rock climbing; in fact I work in a climbing centre in Bristol. Whilst I could never say I was in danger particularly in the past, I do admit that now a f we accesses were dumb. But more to the point with a few basi bits if well chosen kit far more interesting things could be accessed, climbed and more importantly escaped from.

My worry here is that a lot of people have thrown around backyard techniques that they've either bodged or misunderstood. First of all if you don't know how to do something, get taught don't learn on the job there's plenty of people about who'll be happy to teach you - it's fun after all to see someone do something that they never in amillion years thought hey could do. But please don't just go on information from odd forums.

So whats scared me?

Tape/sling prussics? Modern dyneema slings melt, with not that much heat, heat's built up with friction, prussics are friction knots ... See where I'm going with this?! If someone hears on here that you use slings for prussics and then goes and melts through because of poor technique, not tightening before weighting etc (or at least weakens it enough to snap when loaded) their new dyneema sling they may well not be around to tell you.

Secondly cowstails. Slings on cows tails are for hangin on ONLY. You just don't let them get slack a 60cm fall on a dyneema sling brings a 16.7kN force as measured by DMM recently, that won't break your sling but it will break you. Dynamic rope tied with knots to further reduced the dynamic force is the best option if you're moving up and around a lot, but if it's purely for 'just in case I fall' situations pay the money and buy a via Ferrata set up. Easy to clip/unclip and designed to absorb Hugh fall factor falls. (if you don't understand fall factors, look if up).

If you come from a climbing background like me odds are you'll have a sit harness and not faff with chest mounted krolls/basics etc or even use a stop (good as they are) if you sport climb you may well have a great alternative - a gri-gri. Gri-Gris are great for descending single lines, be sure to keep a hand on the brake / feed line though to control the speed don't just depend on the handle it's not as precise. Also if you're going to sit dogging on the gri-gri do consider backing it up, if you're yo-yoing up and down the rope you'll probably have an ascender or prussic on your person somewhere, consider attaching that just as a back up if you are sitting there a while, 'just in case'. I was impressed to read that my Petzl Ascension can take a factor one fall on 9mm rope - god knows what the sheath would look like though after those teeth engage and slip to catch the fall!

Yeh seek advice ask questions, I'm pretty accessible drop us a PM in here and I dint mind answering any questionsor if you're near Bristol I don't mind throwing a rope over a tree and showing you how to ascend, descend safely.

P.S. Always carry accessory cord, my keys are on a length and there's always a pair of prussics chain sennet'd on my harness; perfect for ascending, abseil tat and all manne if other wonderful uses!

Lil Pete


P.P.S. Yes my loops are larks footed. No that's not best practice but is a lot more practical!
 
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lilla

Guest
Guest
Oh and you can still ascend with a single ascender and a gri-gri quickly and comfortably btw it's not just for descending. shout if you can't figure out how.

 

Bunk3r

28DL Memb3r
28DL Full Member
Dynamic rope tied with knots to further reduced the dynamic force is the best option if you're moving up and around a lot, but if it's purely for 'just in case I fall' situations pay the money and buy a via Ferrata set up. Easy to clip/unclip and designed to absorb Hugh fall factor falls. (if you don't understand fall factors, look if up).
Dynamic rope with barrel knots FTW http://www.british-caving.org.uk/rope/lanyard_tests_v6.pdf its even more important to know about fall factors climbing with cowstails its easy to get into a fallfactor 2 situation, which is where via Ferrata stuff is good, problem with it is the further you fall the more you potentially hit and the harder it is to get back up, so theres a balance. I've been thinking of mixing cowstails and a FV setup (to use whats most appropriate for each move) or simply adding an extender to the cowtails with a screamer in it.

Does anyone know about ascending a deployed screamer? is there a variation of prussic /klemheist /something that will do it?
 

Bigjobs

Official Smartarse
Regular User
I seem to remember someone posting a link, probably scott, that said the best tested knots were an alpine butterfly for attaching to harness and fig 8's to the crabs.

Con't find the link now though, so i could be wrong.
 

LittleMike

Do. Find. Drains.
28DL Full Member
I seem to remember someone posting a link, probably scott, that said the best tested knots were an alpine butterfly for attaching to harness and fig 8's to the crabs.

Con't find the link now though, so i could be wrong.
I assume it's the one Bunker just posted? The difference in strength between a barrel knot and a fig 8 seems pretty negligible. The barrel knot will keep your krab in place without the need for elastic bands/other gizmos, but does have a tendency to jam up once loaded, a pain if you ever need to adjust the length.

I personally will be using fig 9s once my current set needs replacing, which are sadly absent from that test. Stronger, absorbs more energy and jams less than a fig 8.
 

Bunk3r

28DL Memb3r
28DL Full Member
a pain if you ever need to adjust the length.
As I understand with knots (as always I'm all ears for learning), you should either undo the knot after each use, or leave the knot in for good. If the knot has been left in for a significant period it although retains its strength whilst its there (minus what you loose for been a knot in the first place naturally) but if you undue it the rope is then distorted and weakened in that area. as such my cowstails stay tied at the ends and I undo/ retie the middle fig 8 on each use.
 
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