Thoughts on Tagging?

[tigger]

Is this thread almost like a 'tag'? OP joins in March, posts this which contains almost half their post count. Not logged in since September and never posted much of interest.

Well, now I'm here I might as well add some more thoughts:

How about initials scratched into a wall? Tom says he removes ALL of it in mines. Is that the correct course? Prehistoric cave paintings have been removed by enthusiastic cleaners. Dated drawings have gone from chalk mines. If I'd put my initials in a wall at Maenofferen when I fist visited people would likley assume I worked there as the dates would be pre-closure (I didn't deface the walls...grandfather would have killed me for doing damage!). Growning up with wooden flipup lid desks at school I think most kids (well, the lads anyway) scratched them or cut scallops into the edges...that was a long time before most 'explorers' on here were born. Recently I was looking at some church pews with dates stretching over 300 years - where is the cut-off between 'interesting and historically significant' and unsightly vandalism? Is it when the place stops being used? If that's the case then is it at the end of it's orginal use or end of any use?
Is adding graf, a tag or sticker really so different?

Stickers - no, it's vandalism just like smashing dial glass, insulators etc.
Graf - some decent art (though that's rare) BUT no, it's vandalism and detestable. Usually just ruins things for evceryone else (it's not been easy to get decent photos of the kilns at Cowdale for twenty years as most angles include this rubbish....and the council vandalism ruined things for newer explorers by removing buildings).

Perhaps we need a voluntary code of parctice where the first explorer puts in an A3 sketchpad and pack of crayons for those that follow*

*though we know it would get ripped up, pssed on, stolen etc. soon after it was mentioned on the internet.

 

[1nk4]

because you said it’s not advertising…….tagging is a form of advertising……just advertising the person who done it

no, advertising means you're selling something. writers don't advertise their names to sell

 

[host]

no, advertising means you're selling something. writers don't advertise their names to sell

So Banksy, Astek, Eine, seen, Insa and thousands more who make a fortune from graff all started by tagging doing trains and basically hitting the streets hard getting their name up as a way of selling them selfs in a way so now ponsy hipster fuckwits from shoreditch think buying a Banksy for £100.000 is cool. Writers were doing this well before Urbex was a thing and will be doing it well after. You don’t have to like it or appreciate it but most train writers have more balls than any explorer.

 

[pirate]

no, advertising means you're selling something. writers don't advertise their names to sell

what about if I’m advertising a job position ? I’m not selling a job position am I.
There is more than one definition to the word advertising.

They are advertising the fact that they’ve been there.

 

[Bigjobs]

It all comes down to wether you see yourself as being there to document the environment and photograph the decline, or if your presence itself is part of the decay.

I don't tag, I'll write my name in chalk, or dust or something

The two main points I think are relevant here, are that the urge for people to leave their mark as been a thing since cave paintings, and we don't own these buildings. So who are we to say that taggers should or shouldn't be doing whatever they want in these places, because that's exactly what we're doing, whatever we want. To start laying down rules as to what is and isn't allowed means we're putting ourselves as some sort of authority, and we really aren't.

 

[Bikin Glynn]

It all comes down to wether you see yourself as being there to document the environment and photograph the decline, or if your presence itself is part of the decay.

I don't tag, I'll write my name in chalk, or dust or something

The two main points I think are relevant here, are that the urge for people to leave their mark as been a thing since cave paintings, and we don't own these buildings. So who are we to say that taggers should or shouldn't be doing whatever they want in these places, because that's exactly what we're doing, whatever we want. To start laying down rules as to what is and isn't allowed means we're putting ourselves as some sort of authority, and we really aren't.

agreed I usually just take a dump!

 

[Bikin Glynn]

It all comes down to wether you see yourself as being there to document the environment and photograph the decline, or if your presence itself is part of the decay.

I don't tag, I'll write my name in chalk, or dust or something

The two main points I think are relevant here, are that the urge for people to leave their mark as been a thing since cave paintings, and we don't own these buildings. So who are we to say that taggers should or shouldn't be doing whatever they want in these places, because that's exactly what we're doing, whatever we want. To start laying down rules as to what is and isn't allowed means we're putting ourselves as some sort of authority, and we really aren't.

I think the only defendable point here is if one breaking the criminal law.
if you deface something you have committed criminal damage so people shouldn't be "doing whatever they want" if its true then we are all just the same as someone who breaks in somewhere & burns the place down arnt we?

 

[Bigjobs]

I think the only defendable point here is if one breaking the criminal law.
if you deface something you have committed criminal damage so people shouldn't be "doing whatever they want" if its true then we are all just the same as someone who breaks in somewhere & burns the place down arnt we?

Where is it written that criminal law is moral? Why would criminal law be the defining reason to why we do or do not do something? There are plenty of people currently breaking what they see as unjust or unfit laws.

I've had people telling me that I shouldn't be going in these places for whatever reasons they like to give, and me pointing out that "akshually i'm not breaking the law, it's not a criminal offence to wander onto someone's land and take pictures". In the years I've been doing this stuff, that's never ever changed anyone's mind. It's just that the line that I'm willing to cross is further than theirs.

So in my mind, if someone wants to tag stuff that I have no ownership of, and I start telling them that they shouldn't be doing that, for whatever reasons I can think of, then I'm no different than the people telling me that I shouldn't be wandering onto other people's land to take pictures.

Do I tag? no. Do I care if someone else does? no. It's none of my business, and the world would be a much better place if a lot more people had that attitude about a lot more things.

 

[Bikin Glynn]

Where is it written that criminal law is moral? Why would criminal law be the defining reason to why we do or do not do something? There are plenty of people currently breaking what they see as unjust or unfit laws.

I've had people telling me that I shouldn't be going in these places for whatever reasons they like to give, and me pointing out that "akshually i'm not breaking the law, it's not a criminal offence to wander onto someone's land and take pictures". In the years I've been doing this stuff, that's never ever changed anyone's mind. It's just that the line that I'm willing to cross is further than theirs.

So in my mind, if someone wants to tag stuff that I have no ownership of, and I start telling them that they shouldn't be doing that, for whatever reasons I can think of, then I'm no different than the people telling me that I shouldn't be wandering onto other people's land to take pictures.

Do I tag? no. Do I care if someone else does? no. It's none of my business, and the world would be a much better place if a lot more people had that attitude about a lot more things.

Yeah I kinda get it but for me I still try to keep the right side if criminal law but that's just where my moral compass lays.
It does annoy me when people tag cos it makes my experience of a place less but I wouldn't try to stop anyone

 

[monk]

Where is it written that criminal law is moral? Why would criminal law be the defining reason to why we do or do not do something? There are plenty of people currently breaking what they see as unjust or unfit laws.

I've had people telling me that I shouldn't be going in these places for whatever reasons they like to give, and me pointing out that "akshually i'm not breaking the law, it's not a criminal offence to wander onto someone's land and take pictures". In the years I've been doing this stuff, that's never ever changed anyone's mind. It's just that the line that I'm willing to cross is further than theirs.

So in my mind, if someone wants to tag stuff that I have no ownership of, and I start telling them that they shouldn't be doing that, for whatever reasons I can think of, then I'm no different than the people telling me that I shouldn't be wandering onto other people's land to take pictures.

Do I tag? no. Do I care if someone else does? no. It's none of my business, and the world would be a much better place if a lot more people had that attitude about a lot more things.

Nailed it.